Skipping Maintenance Renewal

Ok, I'm not Epicor's biggest fan right now, due to this issue and others, but I have to say that the "fixed in E9 only" thing is only the first step. As with anything to do with Epicor, if you push back, and can show them that it's a real issue (costing time, productivity, etc), they do respond, even if not how you would like. I had a COW (moooo) when I heard that answer the 3rd time, and escalated the calls that were my particular issues. They came back with a kind of bleah BPM to help the PO price flipping around when we change a release date, but it will help until we go to 9, and are giving more attention to the other calls. (Gave me one for setting PO plant to logged plant, too, while they were at it.)
Epicor attention is all about pain level. If you are in enough pain to push back, they do listen. If it's not important enough to you to push back, it's not going to be important to them, either. And the poor guys on the front line of support are not able to decide this stuff- you have to escalate.
Not to excuse the method- I'm still mooo-ing, make no mistake. However, they are at least making motions toward retro-fitting a coouple of things that started as "fixed in E9 only."
- leAnn



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Litzau" <scott.litzau@...> wrote:
>
> We almost did not renew maintenance with them this year. Decided to at the
> last minute because I had not been able to fully research third party
> support companies for Vantage. Running V8.803.405B. What am I getting for
> maintenance, not much. A third party support company cost less and I have a
> feeling I would get better support from them.
>
> Hearing this "Lately all I hear from the techs is that it has been fixed in
> Epicor 9 and it will not be fixed in your version." Is a bunch of bullshit.
> You pay for support to FIX THE PROBLEM ON THE VERSION YOU ARE USING. And if
> that is the way Epicor wants to approach this then I for one, and it sounds
> like many of us, are going to stop paying for support since it is painfully
> obvious we are not getting the support we are paying for.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Snake
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:08 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Skipping Maintenance Renewal
>
> I feel the need to respond to Gary's e-mail. I don't know about the rest of
> you, but we are not ready to go to Epicor 9 yet. I have argued that
> response about fixing items in Epcior 9 and not Vantage 8. I guess it
> depends on the difficulty of the fix, because I have had one item fixed in
> Vantage 8 and one not fixed in Vantage 8.
> What I am saying is we should not accept their response to make all the
> fixes in Epicor 9. If they stop supporting Vantage 8, specifically fixes,
> then how do we justify paying maintenance for Vantage 8?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Stephen Schaefer
> Abrams Airborne
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Wojtowicz" <ajrgary@> wrote:
> >
> > This thread has been an interesting read. I wouldn't mind the cost of
> maintenance if Epicor would fix the problems in their software in the
> Version that you are
> > running. Isn't that what you are paying maintenance for? Lately all I hear
> from the techs is that it has been fixed in Epicor 9 and it will not be
> fixed in your version. I am running 8,03.408b, one level behind Epicor 9.
> > On the subject of cancelling and then coming back at a later time when
> times are better. I have been using Epicors Classic since 85 and they
> stopped supporting it wanting everyone to upgrade to Vantage or Vista. It
> was expensive at that time also. since they weren't going to support it with
> upgrades I did cancel my support. the only thing we had to do was pay them
> for W2 updates, a one time charge. After many years of the sales force
> trying to get me to upgrade I did. There were no additional charges tacked
> on because I stopped maintenance on Classic. I think they were happy to get
> the sale before the end of the year. I was off Classic maintenance for at
> least 10 years, they still had all my history so I don't think I was treated
> as a new customer. But upgrading at the end of the year did save some cash.
> >
> > Gary Wojtowicz
> > AJR Industries, Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting me next year with an inflated amount?
We did it too... skipped annual renewal. Just too expensive. Their policy is that you must "catch up" the renewal fee. So, according to them, we'll have to pay double (this year's and next). If this is the case, we are going to stick with the version we have for a VERY VERY long time. Third party vendor we have seems to know more about Vantage than Epicor does, software & hardware ! I'd rather pay for support when I need it.

Chris
Do you run your own payroll?
Pam Simantz
AJR Industries, Inc.

Phone: (847) 439-0380
Fax: (847) 439-0230

E-mail: ajrpam@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Before skipping maintenance, try working with Epicor on establishing payments or a lower fee.
Just a thought.
Nancy

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k99ja04
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal



In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting me next year with an inflated amount?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Short answer, yes you will get stung.

Longer answer,

While I am not 100% positive about this, I THINK that next year you will
have to pay the back maintinance from this year when you pay, since
technically I do not think you are allowed to let maintinance to lapse.

I remember talking to a couple customers that there were 6.1(or earlier)
customers who let Maintinance lapse, and then when it came to upgrade to
8.03 because they wanted certain features and abilities, they were given
the option of paying for all previous years of lapsed maintinance, or be
considered a "new customer" so they were not eligable for certain discounts
that Epicor was offering at the time for "upgrading" as an existing
customer, however it did work out to the advantage in terms of money for
this customer to become a new customer.

> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of k99ja04
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal
>
>
>
> In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for
> 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep
> the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting
> me next year with an inflated amount?
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
This is very true. My co-worker said that if you decide not to renew their maintenance. You get no support until you pay for all backward renewal.

Peace and tranquility,

Lin

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Ned <TechnoBabbly@...> wrote:

From: Ned <TechnoBabbly@...>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:19 PM
















Â









Short answer, yes you will get stung.



Longer answer,



While I am not 100% positive about this, I THINK that next year you will

have to pay the back maintinance from this year when you pay, since

technically I do not think you are allowed to let maintinance to lapse.



I remember talking to a couple customers that there were 6.1(or earlier)

customers who let Maintinance lapse, and then when it came to upgrade to

8.03 because they wanted certain features and abilities, they were given

the option of paying for all previous years of lapsed maintinance, or be

considered a "new customer" so they were not eligable for certain discounts

that Epicor was offering at the time for "upgrading" as an existing

customer, however it did work out to the advantage in terms of money for

this customer to become a new customer.



> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf

> Of k99ja04

> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM

> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

> Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

>

>

>

> In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for

> 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep

> the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting

> me next year with an inflated amount?

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>






























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As others have noted...yes, you will have to pay the skipped amount. Having recently dropped support there are a few more wrinkles in the equation I have run into....

1. The rate at which you reinstate support may change. Legacy customers often have a slightly lower % of the current list price on Epicor's modules and if you go back on it will be as a "new" maintenance customer at the new customer rate. 3rd party modules are all the same rate.

2. Work with Epicor. They are more than willing to work with you to make staying on manageable, if possible. Quarterly payments can often be arranged. If you seldom use support services but only want updates and patches they can work something out there too. My preference and strong advice to our owners was to not drop maintenance but despite some very generous concessions from Epicor we could not justify renewing. If we ever want to upgrade to Epicor 10 or 11 we would have to pay ALL the back years of maintenance. At some point it becomes less expensive to just re-buy from scratch. Of course if we have to do that it means we will check out the market and get quotes on competing systems.

3. Know that Epicor does not do "time & material" or hourly support. But there are 3rd party consultants out there willing to do so.

4. If you do decide not to renew then before access expires download everything you possibly can from the FTP site, quick!

5. Be prepared for possible issues if you ever need to add licensed seats. There is a policy against selling seats to sites not on maintenance...although this can be bent a bit with an OK from high enough up the chain. Of course if you experience growth enough to need more seats then perhaps the financial bind would be relieved enough to get back on an agreement.

6. Be prepared for sleepless nights. You (or the person who supports the system if that's not you) will have a LOT more pressure on the shoulders to keep things working without that safety net a phone call away. If times weren't tough enough to cause the drop maintenance issue to have come up in the first place I would be asking for a cut of the savings in the form of a salary increase. Then again it IS a bit of added job security.

7. Hope that nothing Microsoft does to their operating systems messes up the version of Progress (or OpenEdge) that you are using. Someday you might need a faster server that only comes with a version not compatible with your old Progress version and you won't be able to get patches to accommodate the changes. See #6 above.

Just a few things to think about. But first....talk to your CAM and see what they, or the support group, can do.

-Todd C.






________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k99ja04
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal



In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting me next year with an inflated amount?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Folks: EVERYTHING is negotiable.

They might play hardball, but at the end of the day, do you really think they'll say no to future maintenance dollars over the loss of past contract dollars?

They'll cut a deal before they'll drive a financially recovered & willing customer to their competition.


--- Original Message ---
From:"Lin" <plmidnightpassage@...>
Sent:Mon 1/25/10 1:57 pm
To:vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subj:Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

This is very true. My co-worker said that if you decide not to renew their maintenance. You get no support until you pay for all backward renewal.

Peace and tranquility,

Lin

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Ned <TechnoBabbly@...> wrote:

From: Ned <TechnoBabbly@...>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:19 PM
















Â









Short answer, yes you will get stung.



Longer answer,



While I am not 100% positive about this, I THINK that next year you will

have to pay the back maintinance from this year when you pay, since

technically I do not think you are allowed to let maintinance to lapse.



I remember talking to a couple customers that there were 6.1(or earlier)

customers who let Maintinance lapse, and then when it came to upgrade to

8.03 because they wanted certain features and abilities, they were given

the option of paying for all previous years of lapsed maintinance, or be

considered a "new customer" so they were not eligable for certain discounts

that Epicor was offering at the time for "upgrading" as an existing

customer, however it did work out to the advantage in terms of money for

this customer to become a new customer.



> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf

> Of k99ja04

> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM

> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

> Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

>

>

>

> In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for

> 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep

> the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting

> me next year with an inflated amount?

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>






























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 1/25/2010 5:06 PM, robertb_versa@... wrote:
> Folks: EVERYTHING is negotiable.
> They might play hardball, but at the end of the day, do you really think they'll say no to future maintenance dollars over the loss of past contract dollars?

EXACTLY. Things are tough all over. You should be able to work
something with them.

Personally, I understand them trying to charge retroactively for
software development and product improvement. But to ask FULL price is
asking you to pay for [per incident] tech support that you never used.
Not sure what Epicor considers the financial split to be between
development and "help desk" type support out of the annual fee, but it's
some where in the middle.

-W
The phrases 'over a barrel' springs to mind.

It might be worth speaking to them to look at alternatives such as paying monthly to ease the load from one payment.

Just out of interest, what sort of price are you all paying for maintenance?




________________________________
From: Lin <plmidnightpassage@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 25 January, 2010 18:56:43
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

Â
This is very true. My co-worker said that if you decide not to renew their maintenance. You get no support until you pay for all backward renewal.

Peace and tranquility,

Lin

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Ned <TechnoBabbly@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ned <TechnoBabbly@ gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:19 PM

Â

Short answer, yes you will get stung.

Longer answer,

While I am not 100% positive about this, I THINK that next year you will

have to pay the back maintinance from this year when you pay, since

technically I do not think you are allowed to let maintinance to lapse.

I remember talking to a couple customers that there were 6.1(or earlier)

customers who let Maintinance lapse, and then when it came to upgrade to

8.03 because they wanted certain features and abilities, they were given

the option of paying for all previous years of lapsed maintinance, or be

considered a "new customer" so they were not eligable for certain discounts

that Epicor was offering at the time for "upgrading" as an existing

customer, however it did work out to the advantage in terms of money for

this customer to become a new customer.

> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf

> Of k99ja04

> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM

> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

> Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

>

>

>

> In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for

> 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep

> the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting

> me next year with an inflated amount?

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.
Does Epicor do all your upgrades (ie install the upgrades etc) in with that price?




________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

Â
our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How much!?!?

Theres no wonder people think about stopping it at that price!



________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

Â
our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's cheap.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

How much!?!?

Theres no wonder people think about stopping it at that price!



________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

Â
our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Very similar $17,000 annual for 15 seats and most modules.
_______________________
Jared Allmond
IT Systems Administrator
Wright Coating Technologies
jallmond@...<mailto:jallmond@...>
voice: 269.344.8195
direct: 269.341.4353
fax: 269.344.3007



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe the maintenance prices are a set formula based on current list price per seat for the base and add-on modules X number of seats X either (I think) 15% (legacy) or 18%. 3rd party modules are always the higher rate. If you have a lot of full seats and a lot of add-on modules it multiplies the maintenance cost pretty fast. We got to $28K for 33 full and 14 DC and choked. It is the per seat multiplier effect that really skews things. This isn't MS-Office at $400 cost per seat.

For large systems like this a strictly per seat model becomes a great disincentive for more seats. Just a SWAG but I suspect there are some natural customer size breakpoints for setting up a tiered pricing systems that are not as punitive of growth. The relationship between their support and R&D costs and number is seats is not linear but that's the way it is treated because it is a cash cow for Epicor. For us the value part was way too far out of balance to continue being milked.

-Todd C.


________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal



How much!?!?

Theres no wonder people think about stopping it at that price!

________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@...<mailto:xorone%40yahoo.com>>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal


our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We just looked at SAP and Oracle. Their maintenance/support is at 22%, plus the list price is much more. Were at $40K a year for maintenance. The owner thought it was too expensive until he saw what the big guys are charging for the same thing.


From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal



I believe the maintenance prices are a set formula based on current list price per seat for the base and add-on modules X number of seats X either (I think) 15% (legacy) or 18%. 3rd party modules are always the higher rate. If you have a lot of full seats and a lot of add-on modules it multiplies the maintenance cost pretty fast. We got to $28K for 33 full and 14 DC and choked. It is the per seat multiplier effect that really skews things. This isn't MS-Office at $400 cost per seat.

For large systems like this a strictly per seat model becomes a great disincentive for more seats. Just a SWAG but I suspect there are some natural customer size breakpoints for setting up a tiered pricing systems that are not as punitive of growth. The relationship between their support and R&D costs and number is seats is not linear but that's the way it is treated because it is a cash cow for Epicor. For us the value part was way too far out of balance to continue being milked.

-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

How much!?!?

Theres no wonder people think about stopping it at that price!

________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@...<mailto:xorone%40yahoo.com><mailto:xorone%40yahoo.com>>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with this. It makes for a huge kick in the wallet if you have
to go back and pay for a year that you did not use.



Tim Dines

Information Technology

Steel Parts Manufacturing, Inc.

801 Berryman Pike

Tipton, IN 46072

Direct: 765-675-5201

Cell: 765-437-1402



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal





I believe the maintenance prices are a set formula based on current list
price per seat for the base and add-on modules X number of seats X
either (I think) 15% (legacy) or 18%. 3rd party modules are always the
higher rate. If you have a lot of full seats and a lot of add-on modules
it multiplies the maintenance cost pretty fast. We got to $28K for 33
full and 14 DC and choked. It is the per seat multiplier effect that
really skews things. This isn't MS-Office at $400 cost per seat.

For large systems like this a strictly per seat model becomes a great
disincentive for more seats. Just a SWAG but I suspect there are some
natural customer size breakpoints for setting up a tiered pricing
systems that are not as punitive of growth. The relationship between
their support and R&D costs and number is seats is not linear but that's
the way it is treated because it is a cash cow for Epicor. For us the
value part was way too far out of balance to continue being milked.

-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

How much!?!?

Theres no wonder people think about stopping it at that price!

________________________________
From: xorone <xorone@... <mailto:xorone%40yahoo.com>
<mailto:xorone%40yahoo.com>>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 26 January, 2010 8:47:36
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

our annual contract is ~$16,000 for 11 full & 10 data licenses.

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Is it legal to ask what price others are paying or to share that information? I’m not an attorney, but I think this could, conceivably, be considered price collusion, especially if there is any discussion of future price negotiations with Epicor. Perhaps there is an attorney on this exchange who can clarify the law?

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:16 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal



The phrases 'over a barrel' springs to mind.

It might be worth speaking to them to look at alternatives such as paying monthly to ease the load from one payment.

Just out of interest, what sort of price are you all paying for maintenance?

________________________________
From: Lin <plmidnightpassage@...<mailto:plmidnightpassage%40yahoo.com>>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 25 January, 2010 18:56:43
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal


This is very true. My co-worker said that if you decide not to renew their maintenance. You get no support until you pay for all backward renewal.

Peace and tranquility,

Lin

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Ned <TechnoBabbly@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ned <TechnoBabbly@ gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:19 PM



Short answer, yes you will get stung.

Longer answer,

While I am not 100% positive about this, I THINK that next year you will

have to pay the back maintinance from this year when you pay, since

technically I do not think you are allowed to let maintinance to lapse.

I remember talking to a couple customers that there were 6.1(or earlier)

customers who let Maintinance lapse, and then when it came to upgrade to

8.03 because they wanted certain features and abilities, they were given

the option of paying for all previous years of lapsed maintinance, or be

considered a "new customer" so they were not eligable for certain discounts

that Epicor was offering at the time for "upgrading" as an existing

customer, however it did work out to the advantage in terms of money for

this customer to become a new customer.

> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf

> Of k99ja04

> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 PM

> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

> Subject: [Vantage] Skipping Maintenance Renewal

>

>

>

> In order to save on costs, we're considering not paying maintenance for

> 2010. I know it's not ideal, but in this economy we're just trying to keep

> the doors open. Has anyone skipped a year before? Is Epicor going to sting

> me next year with an inflated amount?

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:

> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

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