Yearly Maintenance

Yahoo Archive
1
The email that I displayed below is incorrect. We apparently had support
the entire time we have been with Vantage. My bad.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Late, Travis
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:32 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



I'm almost certain this is incorrect. We went without support here for 2
years. About 1 year ago we started our support again. Now we get all the
upgrades by just paying our yearly maintenance. You may want to talk
with your Account Rep.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Ned
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

that is correct, OR you can buy the whole system outright again...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Stockard" <jeff.stockard@...
<mailto:jeff.stockard%40rikerprod.com>
<mailto:jeff.stockard%40rikerprod.com> >
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

> Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2
years,
> then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2
> years
> (that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can
upgrade?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of
> Andrew Best
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
>
>
> This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew Best
>
> Kice Industries, Inc.
>
> P(316)744-7151
>
> F(316)295-2412
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
> Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
> for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
> Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
> support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
> have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
> (at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
> savings.
>
> The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is
getting
> caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
> will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
> deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
> the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.
>
> My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
> issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
> very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost.
Like
> buying expensive health insurance.
>
> -Todd C.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
> Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
> throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.
>
> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM
>
> Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and
you
> are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
> services?
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew Best
>
> Kice Industries, Inc.
>
> P(316)744-7151
>
> F(316)295-2412
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
> Behalf
> Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
> Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance
>
> We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
> I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
> and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
> planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
> there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
> right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
> We are located west of Chicago Illinois.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
)
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.
3
Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?



Regards,





Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of kmill99@...
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance



We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
If he is like us, probably never. I have been thinking the same thing
and weighing the option of letting it lapse and when the time comes,
exploring other options.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrew Best
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:11 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. <mailto:kmill99%40sbcglobal.net> net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...> wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM






Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
Does Epicor provide any real value from those calls? Could you get that
information from this group?



Regards,





Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
Kevin,

I would have a serious talk with Epicor to see what they could do for
you on your yearly maintenance. What they typically do is if you take
it upon yourself to not pay it, they really don't care UNTIL you decide
to pay again in hopes of upgrading. Then they DEMAND you pay up
everything that you did not pay before just to ALLOW you to upgrade.
Can't blame them for that notion.

But I think they are more willing to work with you if you tell them what
is happening, work out a better downgraded maintenance fee, then IF your
company decide to stay with them you are NOT hammered with a huge fee
Epicor thinks they are owed.

But this also give you a chance for an opting out option.

Just my two cents worth...



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support. Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years (at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.



Regards,





Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
(at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
We were in your same situation a few years ago. We chose to end our
maintenance when we basically sit back and looked at the direction the
product was going. We had a usable version 5.1 that did what we needed.
Enhancements that would have benefited us never were included in the
updates so it was silly to be strung along in hopes they would. We have
been off maintenance for 4-5 years now. The money saved by not paying
the huge annual fees will be used to purchase the next system whatever
that may be.

A few things to consider. You should be reasonably sure you can handle
any hardware upgrades and other issues that may arise. This usergroup
is a big help for the little things. Also make sure you have no plans
to add modules or users to the system because they won't do that when
you aren't on maintenance. Which makes no sense in my opinion. Any
money I'm willing to spend on additions you'd think a company would
consider but they don't.

Just thought you should hear from someone who hasn't been caught up in
the hype to have the latest release. What we found is the updates
usually caused more trouble than benefit. Find a version that works for
you and stay. When it comes time to reevaluate the system there will be
many more on the market and we are hoping one that better fits our
business needs but for now 5.1 is where we stopped.

Good luck

Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:10 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Kevin,

I would have a serious talk with Epicor to see what they could do for
you on your yearly maintenance. What they typically do is if you take
it upon yourself to not pay it, they really don't care UNTIL you decide
to pay again in hopes of upgrading. Then they DEMAND you pay up
everything that you did not pay before just to ALLOW you to upgrade.
Can't blame them for that notion.

But I think they are more willing to work with you if you tell them what
is happening, work out a better downgraded maintenance fee, then IF your
company decide to stay with them you are NOT hammered with a huge fee
Epicor thinks they are owed.

But this also give you a chance for an opting out option.

Just my two cents worth...



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
We are considering this approach as every "upgrade" that we do cause
something else to break and rarely "upgrades" anything we need. I think
it is better to find a version that works for you, stop maintenance, and
customize it to complete the system. Then use it for 5-7 years and when
you are ready to upgrade then evaluate what other options are available.
You will give your company more opportunities in the future.



Regards,





Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Mann
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



We were in your same situation a few years ago. We chose to end our
maintenance when we basically sit back and looked at the direction the
product was going. We had a usable version 5.1 that did what we needed.
Enhancements that would have benefited us never were included in the
updates so it was silly to be strung along in hopes they would. We have
been off maintenance for 4-5 years now. The money saved by not paying
the huge annual fees will be used to purchase the next system whatever
that may be.

A few things to consider. You should be reasonably sure you can handle
any hardware upgrades and other issues that may arise. This usergroup
is a big help for the little things. Also make sure you have no plans
to add modules or users to the system because they won't do that when
you aren't on maintenance. Which makes no sense in my opinion. Any
money I'm willing to spend on additions you'd think a company would
consider but they don't.

Just thought you should hear from someone who hasn't been caught up in
the hype to have the latest release. What we found is the updates
usually caused more trouble than benefit. Find a version that works for
you and stay. When it comes time to reevaluate the system there will be
many more on the market and we are hoping one that better fits our
business needs but for now 5.1 is where we stopped.

Good luck

Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:10 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Kevin,

I would have a serious talk with Epicor to see what they could do for
you on your yearly maintenance. What they typically do is if you take
it upon yourself to not pay it, they really don't care UNTIL you decide
to pay again in hopes of upgrading. Then they DEMAND you pay up
everything that you did not pay before just to ALLOW you to upgrade.
Can't blame them for that notion.

But I think they are more willing to work with you if you tell them what
is happening, work out a better downgraded maintenance fee, then IF your
company decide to stay with them you are NOT hammered with a huge fee
Epicor thinks they are owed.

But this also give you a chance for an opting out option.

Just my two cents worth...

M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2 years,
then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2 years
(that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can upgrade?





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Andrew Best
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
(at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
13
Yea they like to hold you hostage.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff Stockard
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2
years,
then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2
years
(that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can upgrade?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Andrew Best
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
(at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14
that is correct, OR you can buy the whole system outright again...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Stockard" <jeff.stockard@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance


> Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2 years,
> then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2
> years
> (that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can upgrade?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of
> Andrew Best
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
>
>
> This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew Best
>
> Kice Industries, Inc.
>
> P(316)744-7151
>
> F(316)295-2412
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
> Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
> for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
> Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
> support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
> have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
> (at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
> savings.
>
> The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
> caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
> will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
> deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
> the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.
>
> My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
> issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
> very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
> buying expensive health insurance.
>
> -Todd C.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
>
> Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
> throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.
>
> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM
>
> Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
> are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
> services?
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew Best
>
> Kice Industries, Inc.
>
> P(316)744-7151
>
> F(316)295-2412
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
> Behalf
> Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
> Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance
>
> We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
> I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
> and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
> planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
> there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
> right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
> We are located west of Chicago Illinois.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
15
Yes...they won't send you the disks for the new version until you pay
up....



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff Stockard
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance



Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2
years,
then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2
years
(that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can upgrade?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Andrew Best
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
(at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@... <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

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16
To upgrade...yes, pay all the back support. BUT...if it has been sufficient number of years and buying Vantage again, like any customer fresh off the street, would be less you can do that too. Especially if you do due dilligence and evalauate other systems then available and get quotes for them and leave open the option of leaving Vantage (or Epicor 9) entirely. Still don't expect any serious discounts. That's where the 5 years or so part comes in. After that time it is probably a bit less to re-buy. But 5 years is a long time to be vulnerable to OS and database version issues if you grow out of your hardware - just to breakeven. If you are very static it may be a viable option. Actually with time value of the money saved each year it may be closer to 4 to breakeven on a re-buy and any year longer is gravy.
-Todd C.


________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:55 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance


Yes...they won't send you the disks for the new version until you pay
up....



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Jeff Stockard
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Are you saying that if I stop paying my Maintenance Agreement for 2
years,
then I want to upgrade, I will have to pay Maintenance for the last 2
years
(that I didn't get), then pay for the additional year so I can upgrade?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Andrew Best
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

This is quite the scheme that Epicor has running.

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Add up the time involved on those calls and check the rate from Epicor
for "time & materials" support. That is, "per call" billable support.
Even at exorbitant rates you might find that 10-20 hours of total
support time could be substantially less than paying annually. If you
have no intention of upgrading the breakeven seems to be about 5 years
(at 18% of current list)...less figuring a little compounding of
savings.

The biggest risk of the above (based on personal experience) is getting
caught in a OS or DB jam. Someday you may need a beefier server that
will only run some version of Windows that Vantage or Progress can not
deal with. Then you may be in a position of needing to either pay all
the back support and upgrade Vantage or get a different system.

My biggest fear in dropping support would be a catastrophic database
issue needing a lot of time to resolve. A long system down issue can
very quickly cost the company far more than a year of support cost. Like
buying expensive health insurance.

-Todd C.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Kevin Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance

Yes the yearly maintenance and we dont require much assistance
throughout the year. Maybe 4 or 5 calls.

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Andrew Best <abest@...<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com> > wrote:

From: Andrew Best <abest@...<mailto:abest%40kice.com> <mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com>
<mailto:abest%40kice.com> >
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Yearly Maintenance
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 8:10 AM

Are you talking about the yearly maintenance with Epicor? If so and you
are running Version 6.0, how often do you actually require their
services?

Regards,

Andrew Best

Kice Industries, Inc.

P(316)744-7151

F(316)295-2412

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf
Of kmill99@sbcglobal. net
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Yearly Maitenance

We are current on Version 6.0 and we are not in any hurry to upgrade.
I have our version "tweaked" and modified for incredible performance
and versatility, but our yearly maintenance is a killer. As I wont be
planning to uprading for at least 2 to 3 years, does anyone know if
there are other means of support options? Times are very difficult
right now, and reducing the yearly mainteance could help tremendously.
We are located west of Chicago Illinois.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17
Like it or not but that practice is pretty much an industry norm. You
can't just drop maintenance and re-up without a penalty.

But remember that EVERYTHING is negotiable.

I suggest being reasonable during negotiations and there is a win-win
solution to be found.
If you truly want maintenance, and Epicor truly want to retain your
maintenance dollars...there is a solution there someplace.
If you expect to change ERP providers within 3 years I would suggest
dropping maintenance (if you are on a stable rev) and bank the money to
use towards your next investment.
Dale.





Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18
And remember, you don't buy software, you lease it. So a software company can pretty much do what it wants as long as its spelled out in the license agreement. I've used software where it would stop working if you let your maintenance agreement expire.




________________________________
From: "dwalker@..." <dwalker@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:34:45 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Yearly Maintenance


Like it or not but that practice is pretty much an industry norm. You
can't just drop maintenance and re-up without a penalty.

But remember that EVERYTHING is negotiable.

I suggest being reasonable during negotiations and there is a win-win
solution to be found.
If you truly want maintenance, and Epicor truly want to retain your
maintenance dollars...there is a solution there someplace.
If you expect to change ERP providers within 3 years I would suggest
dropping maintenance (if you are on a stable rev) and bank the money to
use towards your next investment.
Dale.

Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
19
Depends on the license terms. The Epicor license terms aren't that
onerous compared to some.



--

Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix

bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~
www.advancedphotonix.com



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Gotschall
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:43 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Yearly Maintenance



And remember, you don't buy software, you lease it. So a software
company can pretty much do what it wants as long as its spelled out in
the license agreement. I've used software where it would stop working
if you let your maintenance agreement expire.

________________________________
From: "dwalker@... <mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com> "
<dwalker@... <mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:34:45 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Yearly Maintenance

Like it or not but that practice is pretty much an industry norm. You
can't just drop maintenance and re-up without a penalty.

But remember that EVERYTHING is negotiable.

I suggest being reasonable during negotiations and there is a win-win
solution to be found.
If you truly want maintenance, and Epicor truly want to retain your
maintenance dollars...there is a solution there someplace.
If you expect to change ERP providers within 3 years I would suggest
dropping maintenance (if you are on a stable rev) and bank the money to
use towards your next investment.
Dale.

Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc. com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
20
If it's any consolation, Epicor didn't invent this concept. It's pretty
wide spread thru the entire IT world.



Bob



*************************************

Bob Powers

Mechanical Dynamics and Analysis, Ltd.

Office: 518.399.3616

Cell: 518.321-4186

bpowers@... <mailto:bpowers@...>

*************************************





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