Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

[system]

I must disagree with Rob. I have personally worked with an ERP package
from Infor (for a couple of decades) that did not have such loose error
trapping during data entry to where it let users enter characters that the
application stumbled over downstream. This was not a WinTel application;
perhaps that was the difference...
Dale.





Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?

Situation:
Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.

Result:
Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.

Expected resolution:
Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.

Epicor proposed resolution:
We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.

I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.

Grzegorz Szczepañski

[system]

I'm not familiar with what you are talking about, but it sounds like you are saying that you can create a part number with double apostrophes and this messes up some reports and trackers. Not surprising.

My experience is that if it is a bug on their part and not something caused by a customization or doing something outside of Vantage (like updating the parts through ODBC), then they will eventually fix it and in a case like yours provide a procedure to correct the problem in your database. But sometimes you have to complain to the right people, and to make sure you have a well documented and reasonable argument on why it is their fault. Remember, they want to keep you as a customer but their resorces are limited.

I am going through something similiar to this right now (not related to your problem) and supports initial response was less then satisfying.  I just had a conference call with a number of people from different groups at Epicor. They agreed to work on a solution, but I realize that it will take them a while to come up with the complex change we need. In the mean they have given me ideas on how to work around the problem until the "fix" is developed.

I would recommend you get some contact information for some people higher up the food chain at Epicor and pitch your case to them and explain why you feel you shouldn't have to pay them for fixing your database.




________________________________
From: tomojmail <phoenix_@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:21:21 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?

Situation:
Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.

Result:
Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.

Expected resolution:
Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.

Epicor proposed resolution:
We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.

I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.

Grzegorz Szczepañski







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Hi,

Im not sure that the issue with the double '' is classed as a bug as such.

Is it not operator error that double '' were used in the part number isntead of quotation marks?

I know that Epicor like to charge for things that I feel are how the system should work, but I think I am leaning slightly towards their viewed on this one.

I accept that it shouldn't allow you to input the double apostrophes in the first place, but if a user wanted a quotation mark, that is down to keyboard training rather than Epicor's fault.

Â



________________________________
From: Steven Gotschall <sgotschall@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 11:14:45
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





I'm not familiar with what you are talking about, but it sounds like you are saying that you can create a part number with double apostrophes and this messes up some reports and trackers. Not surprising.

My experience is that if it is a bug on their part and not something caused by a customization or doing something outside of Vantage (like updating the parts through ODBC), then they will eventually fix it and in a case like yours provide a procedure to correct the problem in your database. But sometimes you have to complain to the right people, and to make sure you have a well documented and reasonable argument on why it is their fault. Remember, they want to keep you as a customer but their resorces are limited.

I am going through something similiar to this right now (not related to your problem) and supports initial response was less then satisfying.  I just had a conference call with a number of people from different groups at Epicor. They agreed to work on a solution, but I realize that it will take them a while to come up with the complex change we need. In the mean they have given me ideas on how to work around the problem until the "fix" is developed.

I would recommend you get some contact information for some people higher up the food chain at Epicor and pitch your case to them and explain why you feel you shouldn't have to pay them for fixing your database.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: tomojmail <phoenix_@wp. pl>
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:21:21 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?

Situation:
Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.

Result:
Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.

Expected resolution:
Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.

Epicor proposed resolution:
We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.

I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.

Grzegorz Szczepañski

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

And half a day for a custom Progress conversion program doesn't seem unreasonable.

I'm not sure that such input validation and the unexpected side-effects would be at all obvious to anyone.

You could do this updating of PartDescriptions in ServiceConnect as well, or pay someone to write the workflow. You'd just need to supply it with a list of PartNums that are problematic, although the XSLT 1.0 support in the current version of ServiceConnect doesn't give you global string replacements, so it might be simpler to do the change to the PartDescription in Excel and just give your workflow three input columns: Company, PartNum, NewPartDescription.

-bws

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:37 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

Hi,

Im not sure that the issue with the double '' is classed as a bug as such.

Is it not operator error that double '' were used in the part number isntead of quotation marks?

I know that Epicor like to charge for things that I feel are how the system should work, but I think I am leaning slightly towards their viewed on this one.

I accept that it shouldn't allow you to input the double apostrophes in the first place, but if a user wanted a quotation mark, that is down to keyboard training rather than Epicor's fault.

Â



________________________________
From: Steven Gotschall <sgotschall@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 11:14:45
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





I'm not familiar with what you are talking about, but it sounds like you are saying that you can create a part number with double apostrophes and this messes up some reports and trackers. Not surprising.

My experience is that if it is a bug on their part and not something caused by a customization or doing something outside of Vantage (like updating the parts through ODBC), then they will eventually fix it and in a case like yours provide a procedure to correct the problem in your database. But sometimes you have to complain to the right people, and to make sure you have a well documented and reasonable argument on why it is their fault. Remember, they want to keep you as a customer but their resorces are limited.

I am going through something similiar to this right now (not related to your problem) and supports initial response was less then satisfying.  I just had a conference call with a number of people from different groups at Epicor. They agreed to work on a solution, but I realize that it will take them a while to come up with the complex change we need. In the mean they have given me ideas on how to work around the problem until the "fix" is developed.

I would recommend you get some contact information for some people higher up the food chain at Epicor and pitch your case to them and explain why you feel you shouldn't have to pay them for fixing your database.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: tomojmail <phoenix_@wp. pl>
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:21:21 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?

Situation:
Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.

Result:
Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.

Expected resolution:
Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.

Epicor proposed resolution:
We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.

I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.

Grzegorz Szczepañski

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[system]

I have one quick question, was this done by someone entering the part numbers manually or was this done by someone importing the parts into the system? If it was by import, who did the import?

If Epicor screwed up the import, then you have a case to tell them to get it done correctly on Epicor's dime.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, when they came out with version 8 (and beyond) they allowed special characters to be used in ID fields (like part numbers) without explaining that this can cause problems if you were to use products like the Product Configurator or other programs.

HTH,


M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tomojmail
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?

Situation:
Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.

Result:
Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.

Expected resolution:
Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.

Epicor proposed resolution:
We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.

I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.

Grzegorz Szczepañski






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

I have also had experience where Epicor has a bug and then expects us to spend additional time, money and resources to fix and/or work around their bug. We had a case where we found a bug and they told us to write a dashboard to locate the occurrences. Well, I already wasted my time pinpointing the bug and explaining it to their

I think data Validation should be a basic part of a highly functions ERP software. If you are allowed to enter data without restrictions the software should be able to display that data in ALL areas of the software as a basic function.

You should definitely have the call escalated and state your case that the bug you found is adversely affecting your business and that they should fix it as part of your support.

In the end, if "Epicor provides a single point of accountability that drives increased profitability" (profitability for their customers) they should stand behind their product – bugs and all.

Good Luck!

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "tomojmail" <phoenix_@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me. I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage. This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same situation with you?
>
> Situation:
> Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.
>
> Result:
> Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.
>
> Expected resolution:
> Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.
>
> Epicor proposed resolution:
> We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.
>
> I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.
>
> Grzegorz Szczepañski
>

[system]

Did you get this problem solved? I believe I have something that can help
you. If you haven't BTW when you mean double apostrophe do you mean two of
thse
' ' or a double quote such as "

Sincerely
Jose C Gomez

http://www.josecgomez.com

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:21 AM, tomojmail <phoenix_@...> wrote:

>
>
> I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me.
> I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage.
> This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same
> situation with you?
>
> Situation:
> Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.
>
> Result:
> Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.
>
> Expected resolution:
> Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the
> double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.
>
> Epicor proposed resolution:
> We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.
>
> I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.
>
> Grzegorz Szczepañski
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug.
No logic in any system should allow users to enter characters that will
knowingly cause downstream errors.
Either block/filter/prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(






Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.



-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of dwalker@...
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in
Vantage

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug.
No logic in any system should allow users to enter characters that will
knowingly cause downstream errors.
Either block/filter/prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters

and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(






Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[system]

In the situation you describe, I don't think you should have to pay for that.
If the Part master (GetNewPart) allows you to use a particular character when naming the part, then Epicor is responsible for making sure that anything you type in there shows up everywhere you need to see it.
You should not have to pay to fix that, and if I were you, I'd fight it. Especially when you are paying support already.





________________________________
From: Jose Gomez <jose@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 6:35:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





Did you get this problem solved? I believe I have something that can help
you. If you haven't BTW when you mean double apostrophe do you mean two of
thse
' ' or a double quote such as "

Sincerely
Jose C Gomez

http://www.josecgomez.com

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:21 AM, tomojmail <phoenix_@wp. pl> wrote:

>
>
> I would like to know if there is more people in the same situation like me.
> I have feeling that Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage.
> This is not the first time and I would like to ask if there is the same
> situation with you?
>
> Situation:
> Vantage (8.03.305) is allowing to use double apostrophe '' in PartNum.
>
> Result:
> Such parts are not Visible in OnHand Status tracker, and several reports.
>
> Expected resolution:
> Support to provide a procedure that will change in whole database the
> double apostrophe to quotation mark in each PartNum occurence.
>
> Epicor proposed resolution:
> We will charge you for this fix - minimum half day programming.
>
> I would like to add that I am customer that is paying for maintenance.
>
> Grzegorz Szczepañski
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Coming from legacy systems where were tens times more sensitive to that
condition we have maintained a very similar stance...integer or A-Z.
Even if Vanatage doesn't choke on it somewhere else, some other app you
are interfacing that data with might...



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs
in Vantage





This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@... <mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in
Vantage

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug.
No logic in any system should allow users to enter characters that will
knowingly cause downstream errors.
Either block/filter/prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters

and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated

507-665-6204 ext 277
www.lesueurinc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.



Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com







________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.




________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@... <mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

After I poured sand into my petrol tank, Ford refused to pay for cleaning out the system and replacing the damaged parts.
Manufacturers eh?

Regards
Richard

Richard Bailey
IT Systems

DUDLEY I n d u s t r i e s L i m i t e d, Preston Road, Lytham, Lancashire, FY8 5AT, UK
*+44 (0)1253 738311
* rbailey@...<mailto:grbailey@...> ü www.dudleyindustries.co.uk
Europe's Leading Manufacturer of Quality Washroom Dispensing Systems
A Rentokil Initial Company
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail together with any attachments is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential and/or privileged information and express views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily of Dudley Industries Limited. The disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited by anyone other than the intended recipient(s). If you are not a named recipient, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:41
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@...<mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com> <mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Rob writes:

> Coming from legacy systems where were tens times more
> sensitive to that
> condition we have maintained a very similar stance...integer or A-Z.
> Even if Vanatage doesn't choke on it somewhere else, some
> other app you are interfacing that data with might...

We're just talking about behavior within Vantage/Epicor itself but Rob
brings up a good point. We haven't even considered the consequences for the
espcaping required for the HTTP transport of webservices or web pages (", ',
&, <, >).

Mark W.

[system]

it blows my mind that Vantage allows spaces in key fields.
I cringe every time I see some of the legacy WHSE and PLANT definitions in this database that have spaces




________________________________
From: CharlieSmith <CSmith@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 8:40:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant .com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@lesueurinc. com <mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/ prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

You think that is freaky, have you ever seen a revision number that was just a single space? I almost had a heart attack.




________________________________
From: Tony Hughes <thughes281@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 11:11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





it blows my mind that Vantage allows spaces in key fields.
I cringe every time I see some of the legacy WHSE and PLANT definitions in this database that have spaces

____________ _________ _________ __
From: CharlieSmith <CSmith@vistaconsult ant.com>
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 8:40:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant .com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@lesueurinc. com <mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/ prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Well put Richard.

I DESPISE Epicor's attitude when it comes to support (particularly in regard to the hoops they make US jump through before THEY acknowledge a bug and open an SCR) - but on this one, I think it is easy for them to say "show me a system that does this 100%" - and you won't find one.

I've never used a system in 25 years that 100% prevents entry (in every character field in the system) of 'special' (undesireable) characters that can cause misinterpretation of of the data when pumped through another process.

Telnet/character based client shells talking to closed VMS and UNIX hosted systems were suffering this problem 25 years ago - and the explosion of languages (each with their own special reserved characters) that are now used to develop single systems (and not always cleanly demarked per system 'layer') make it an even more of a daunting task today than it was then.

At best, you can hope for some protection on record key fields (such as "Warehouse" as someone in this groaningly large & growing topic thread mentioned earlier). For a description field though? You're dreaming.

The performance hit users would feel if every character field entry point control was tied to a pre-wash "check for undesired charcters" precommitment (to db) process would be ugly (and Vantage is already a performance dog).

If you have specific limited entry points you must protect, go on MSDN/technet and grab yourself some free .Net client code to check the CharCode of each character in the string (before allowing the update method to execute) and only allow entry of ASCII codes for "0-9", "A-Z" or "a-z"... While you're at it, perhaps force all lower case characters to uppercase.

Frankly, it is just easier to make it a 'people rule' of 'just don't do it' (and occasionally audit critical fields to see if they are complying - with training reinforcement as needed).

Rob Brown


Â



________________________________
From: Richard Bailey <rbailey@...>
To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:46:30 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





After I poured sand into my petrol tank, Ford refused to pay for cleaning out the system and replacing the damaged parts.
Manufacturers eh?

Regards
Richard

Richard Bailey
IT Systems

DUDLEY I n d u s t r i e s L i m i t e d, Preston Road, Lytham, Lancashire, FY8 5AT, UK
*+44 (0)1253 738311
* rbailey@dudleyindus tries.co. uk<mailto:grbailey@dudleyindu stries.co. uk> ü www.dudleyindustrie s.co.uk
Europe's Leading Manufacturer of Quality Washroom Dispensing Systems
A Rentokil Initial Company
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail together with any attachments is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential and/or privileged information and express views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily of Dudley Industries Limited. The disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) . If you are not a named recipient, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:41
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant .com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@lesueurinc. com<mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com> <mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/ prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

UNIX (at least AIX 4.3) allowed the use of a single space as a file name.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steven Gotschall
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:31 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in
Vantage








You think that is freaky, have you ever seen a revision number that was just
a single space? I almost had a heart attack.

________________________________
From: Tony Hughes <thughes281@... <mailto:thughes281%40yahoo.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 11:11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in
Vantage

it blows my mind that Vantage allows spaces in key fields.
I cringe every time I see some of the legacy WHSE and PLANT definitions in
this database that have spaces

____________ _________ _________ __
From: CharlieSmith <CSmith@vistaconsult ant.com>
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 8:40:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in
Vantage

This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant .com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:vantage@ yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@lesueurinc. com <mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/ prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

"After I poured sand into my petrol tank, Ford refused to pay for cleaning out the system and replacing the damaged parts.
Manufacturers eh?"

Well put Richard.

While IÂ detest Epicor's attitude when it comes to support (particularly in regard to the hoops they make US jump through before THEY acknowledge a bug and open an SCR) -Â in this case I can't fault them.

I think it is easy for them to say "show me a system that does this 100%" - and you won't find one. (When it comes to software quality, the true test for specific issues comes down to a comparison to similar price point competitors' products - and none would likely pass this test for this issue)

I've never used a system in 25 years that 100% prevents entry (in every character field in the system) of 'special' (undesireable) characters that can cause misinterpretation of the data when pumped through another process.

Telnet/character based client shells talking to closed VMS and UNIX hosted systems were suffering this problem 25 years ago - and the explosion of languages (each with their own special reserved characters) that are now used to develop single systems (and not always cleanly demarked per system 'layer') make it an even more of a daunting task today than it was then.

At best, you can hope for some protection on record key fields (such as "Warehouse" as someone in this groaningly large & growing topic thread mentioned earlier). For a description field though? (Wishful thinking.)

The performance hit users would feel if every character field entry point control was tied to a pre-wash "check for undesired characters" precommitment-(to db)-process would be ugly (and Vantage is already a slow UI performer).

If you have specific limited entry points you must protect, go on MSDN/technet and grab yourself some free .Net client code to check the CharCode of each character in the string (before allowing the update method to execute) and only allow entry of ASCII code ranges equivalent to "0-9", "A-Z" or "a-z"... (While you're at it, perhaps force all lower case characters to uppercase!)

Frankly, it is just easier to make it a 'people rule' of 'just don't do it' (and occasionally audit critical fields to see if they are complying - with training reinforcement as needed)... Nothing new about that.

Rob Brown


Â



________________________________
From: Richard Bailey <rbailey@...>
To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:46:30 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage





After I poured sand into my petrol tank, Ford refused to pay for cleaning out the system and replacing the damaged parts.
Manufacturers eh?

Regards
Richard

Richard Bailey
IT Systems

DUDLEY I n d u s t r i e s L i m i t e d, Preston Road, Lytham, Lancashire, FY8 5AT, UK
*+44 (0)1253 738311
* rbailey@dudleyindus tries.co. uk<mailto:grbailey@dudleyindu stries.co. uk> ü www.dudleyindustrie s.co.uk
Europe's Leading Manufacturer of Quality Washroom Dispensing Systems
A Rentokil Initial Company
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This e-mail together with any attachments is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential and/or privileged information and express views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily of Dudley Industries Limited. The disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) . If you are not a named recipient, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:41
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Why Epicor forcing me to pay for fixing bugs in Vantage

This goes for just about any key item. Special characters (any character
other than 0-9, A-Z, a-z, or -) should not be in any ID field. I don't
like spaces either. It's just another keystroke that is generally
unnecessary.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant .com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
This is why I am adamant with my system and users and do my very best to
keep Part Numbers and descriptions free of anything except 0-9 and A-Z.

____________ _________ _________ __

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com<mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf
Of dwalker@lesueurinc. com<mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com> <mailto:dwalker% 40lesueurinc. com>

If what Manasa said is true; then it is clearly a bug. No logic in any
system should allow users to enter characters that will knowingly cause
downstream errors.
Either block/filter/ prevent the erroneous input ---or--- trap the error
downstream in some sort of error correction routine.
Don't let the system burn down when it trips on the erroneous characters
and let the customer fend for themselves to fix it. :-(

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]