You are probably right Chris. I'm sure some program designer felt we needed to be 'saved from ourselves'.
That would be great if they had also done something like include an 'invisible' loop to optimize the order of the table-column joins.
But they didn't and since the BAQ UI begs users to simply select data elements like they are strolling through a grocery store, the resulting statements are almost assuredly not optimizing performance.
In this case, *LESS (a simple text editor to allow hand tweaking of ALL of the generated code) WOULD BE MORE*.
Leave 'saving us from ourselves' to politicians and the government... We didn't pay Epicor this kind of money to be needlessly hog tied.
Rob Brown
Chris Robisch <bluewine@...> wrote: Yes, BAQ's are hiding things and the code isn't editable. I suspect to enforce Field-level security and staying in one Company in a multi-company environment.
That would be great if they had also done something like include an 'invisible' loop to optimize the order of the table-column joins.
But they didn't and since the BAQ UI begs users to simply select data elements like they are strolling through a grocery store, the resulting statements are almost assuredly not optimizing performance.
In this case, *LESS (a simple text editor to allow hand tweaking of ALL of the generated code) WOULD BE MORE*.
Leave 'saving us from ourselves' to politicians and the government... We didn't pay Epicor this kind of money to be needlessly hog tied.
Rob Brown
Chris Robisch <bluewine@...> wrote: Yes, BAQ's are hiding things and the code isn't editable. I suspect to enforce Field-level security and staying in one Company in a multi-company environment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Brown" <robertb_versa@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] When to use BAQs? Dashboards? Crystal? Or anything else
Scott is right on in his assessment.
BAQs do seem to impose much less processing overhead than ODBC/SQL queries (which most people even asking this question likely have much more experience with).
I have a handful of similar intended result BAQS and matching ODBC/SQL Queries and I find ODBC SQL returns results much faster in general (but really load the server in the process).
I suspect that is because even the most simple common SQL editor (MS-Query that comes with all Office Apps) allows direct editing of SQL code so you can optomize it for faster performance.
When creating BAQs, you are forced to use the Vantage tool that doesn't allow such direct code editing for optimization ( - a HUGE and easily corrected blunder on Epicor's part). I would be shocked if the Phrase Builder actually generates the most efficient code possible. It also hides a great deal of the resulting code behind the app's GUI. I can change displayed field orders, add delete (and rename) displayed fields and change multi column sort sequences in SQL in seconds because of the ability to directly edit the code in a text editor. In Vantage, you have to repeatedly go through the GUI and it is much more time consuming.
It's reaching a level of annoyance to me that I'm going to bone up on XML to see if exported (to XML) BAQs are able to be edited & optimized more efficiently.
VERY annoying that I have to spend time teaching myself yet another a new programming paradigm (that is still in flux and likely to change) when Epicor could simply provide a simple text editor in the existing app - but so be it.
I'd attempt a BAQ designer customization to provide the capability on my own but, since they are hiding so much of the process, I fear it would be an equally frustrating (and likely fruitless) effort.
Either way: For server load issues - Stick to BAQs if at all possible.
Rob Brown
Scott Litzau <scott.litzau@...> wrote:
I use BAQ's to create Advanced Searches, Dashboards and now that I am on
8.803 I use them for reports that I used to use ODBC for in Crystal.
According to Epicor running a BAQ is faster and taxes the system less than
an ODBC call for a report. The faster side I am a little skeptical on
because it seems the reports be it ODBC or BAQ take approx. the same amount
of time to run.
But what I do like about using a BAQ and BAQ Report Designer versus doing
ODBC with Crystal is the GUI interface. I think the BAQ Designer is much
cleaner and easier to understand for the end user when entering parameters
or filters versus Crystal's interface. But I still do use ODBC with Crystal
because of some complex reporting I am doing and it is just so much easier
to setup and see Tables and the relationships in Crystal and then being to
add the fields you want. With a BAQ and BAQ Reports you have to always go
back and modify the Query and add the fields if you missed anything. So a
lot of time I will actually create a report in Crystal using ODBC, figure
out all the Tables and the relationships with those Tables, the fields, the
parameters, the formulas, etc... that I need then go back and create a BAQ
and the BAQ Report mimicking the ODBC report.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ken Williams
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] When to use BAQs? Dashboards? Crystal? Or anything
else
We use BAQ's for everything - Dashboards, Crystal & custom searches.
Basically, any time someone says 'could I have this with this but only
with this from this date to that date', we create a BAQ. If they decide
they need a print out, we tie it into Crystal, if they decide they need
it displayed often, we create a Dashboard, if they decide they need it
for searching only, we set it up as a BAQ search.
I love BAQ's.
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of debsmithmich
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:03 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] When to use BAQs? Dashboards? Crystal? Or anything
else
Hi everyone,
I had dropped this question into the middle of a different discussion
and realized I might get a better response if I posted it separately
We are currently on 6.1 and working towards our 8.03 conversion. We
have been discussing when to use BAQs? when to use dashboards? when
to use Crystal? or when to use BAQs with Crystal. Does anyone have
any clear/semi-clear idea on when to use which? I know that
Dashboards are good for when you don't want to print, but other than
that I don't clearly understand when I should use what design for
reports.
Ideas from all would be great.
Thanks for any and all input.
Debbie Smith
debsmithmich@... <mailto:debsmithmich%40yahoo.com>
Argonics, Inc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
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