Vantage upgrade from 4 to 5

We need some advices, please. Reading Paul's post, we feel
uncomfortable to upgrade from 4.09 to 5. However, reading Britt's
reply, we feel upswing again.

However, please let me know about your experiences and we need some
more facts.

1- Can a Dell server 600 Mhz and 500 Meg Ram deliver an adequate
speed for 14 users of Vantage? Or do we need more? I know that
theoretically, each user needs about 20 Meg.

2- Is it safe to install version 5 directly to a new server and
copy the DB over and run the schema change? Is there anybody who has
ever done this? We plan to replace our old and slow server for a new
one (600 Mhz and 500 Meg Ram) and the only thing we get from Vantage
help is the document upgrade Db 4 to 5. Will there be any problems
during the course?

3- Is it worth it to upgrade to 5 in terms of easier to use, less
bugs? Because we have customized forms in Crystal, we don't want to
involve in something of the same value but cost us time and effort to
modify those forms. Any bugs of v.5 are awared so far?

4- Conclusion, do you really like v.5 over 4.09? We really
think it's worth it to upgrade from v.3 to v.4, so we are seeking the
same safety.

Thanks so much for your advices, anything will help.






--- In vantage@y..., Britt Moelling <bmoelling@m...> wrote:
> Paula
> I was on vacation last week, hence the delay in responding.
>
> We presently have a 4 gig database, running on a Netfinity 3000 450
mhz
> server with 768 meg RAM.
>
> We had a similiar problem in going from ver 4 to ver 5. I had
already
> done a test conversion on old data on a different (slower) server,
so I
> knew how long each step should take (max time since it was a slower
> server). I can't remember which step, but I think it was the schema
> change, was taking WAY too long on the production server. The only
> difference in the conversion process between the test server and the
> production server was that I ran the schema change on a workstation
with
> the test conversion, instead of on the server itself (as I was
doing on
> the production server). I decided to restart the upgrade, and ran
the
> schema change from a workstation, and if finished within my
> expectations. ( I did the entire upgrade in a 2 day weekend.)
>
> Another thing that seemed to help, was that I installed an
additional 9
> gig drive in the server (not mirrored), and did the work on it
rather
> than the RAID array.
>
> Paul Labuda wrote:
>
> > We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this
> > weekend.
> > We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema
changes
> > for 55
> > hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for
others
> > upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a
Pentium 2
> > 300mhz
> > processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6
gigabytes. We
> > had
> > crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the
> > sever
> > console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is
> > available
> > out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access.
> > )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> > and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> --
> Britt Moelling
> M&M Manufacturing Co.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this weekend.
We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes for 55
hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2 300mhz
processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We had
crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the sever
console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is available
out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paul:

I did my schema change in <30 min on saturday. My db is 200 mb. Did
you turn off crash protection?

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco

Paul Labuda wrote:

> We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this
> weekend.
> We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes
> for 55
> hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
> upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2
> 300mhz
> processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We
> had
> crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the
> sever
> console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is
> available
> out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a known problem with LARGE (>1GB) databases.
Support has a document for doing a "FAST" schema change.
This is what we did to get our DB converted, because like you,
when we first tested our conversion on a test system, it ran over
96 hours during a holiday weekend, and it still wasn't complete.

Using the fast method, we were able to convert from 3 to 5 in
one weekend, with a database size of about 1.8 GB.
Do a search on ERANET, or call support and ask for the
FAST SCHEMA CHANGE Documents.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any other questions.

Tim Care
Electro Chemical Finishing

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Labuda" <plabuda@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:48 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage upgrade from 4 to 5


> We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this weekend.
> We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes for
55
> hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
> upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2
300mhz
> processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We had
> crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the sever
> console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is available
> out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
We have a database of approximately 1.2gb. When I did the first conversion
from 3 to 4 to 5 on a test server, the schema changes from 4 to 5 ran in
excess of 48 hours so I stopped it and started over. I couldn't get the
fast schema change procedure to work either and without doing a single thing
differently I re-ran the regular schema change and it completed in about 10
hours. Go figure.

Rick
At 08:48 AM 8/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this weekend.
>We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes for 55
>hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others

If you loaded everything per the instructions, then your new Progress 9.1
DB server is GROSSLY mis-configured for performance. (so are all the older
versions, too - at least 8.3 & 9.0) The amount of RAM memory used for data
caching will be a default calculated on the number of users you specified
during the install.

You can override this with a -B parameter in your
Epic50\Progress\Startup.pf file. something like -B 50000 might be good on
your 320MB server. The default will be 8X the number of users you
specified -- way too small. Just edit the file with notepad after you've
installed Progress and the patch, and before any actual data updates. I
haven't tried this yet, but I bet it speeds up things enough that you can
skip the "turn off crash protection" suggestion.

In any case, once you're up and running you'll want to configure -B
separately for each DB, so you don't waste 200MB on the training
DB. There's a good new document on EraNet:
http://eranet.epicor.com/ansbook/vantage/public/1/13/130/1304mps.htm
that discuses 5.0 DB tuning. The "# Blocks in DB Buffer" section tells how
to set the -B for each DB in the Progress Explorer. The advice in there is
applicable to older versions also - but you'll have to figure out the
corresponding command line parameters and edit them into startup.pf or
ProControl's command line.

-Wayne Cox
We tried this on a PIII 700 single CPU PC with 256 Megs of RAM as a test for upgrading to Vantage 5 on our live system. Our 800 Meg database took between 6-8 hours to run a schema change, so 55 hours, even on a 300 MHz processor seems a little too long. As it turned out, we had so many other problems with Vantage 5 that we canned the whole idea of moving to 5.0. Maybe 5.1 will be less bug ridden.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Labuda
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage upgrade from 4 to 5


We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this weekend.
We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes for 55
hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2 300mhz
processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We had
crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the sever
console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is available
out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.


>snip<


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When I upgraded, I did the installation complete along side my 4.0 version
several months prior to actually going live, with 5.0 installed I tuned the
database by adding the -b to use a couple hundred meg of ram, my server has
512. When I converted to 5.0 from this point I noticed the schema change ran
significantly faster. I can't say for sure but I think tuning the database
with the -B will improve conversion time.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: David Sloan [mailto:dsloan@...]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 6:18 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage upgrade from 4 to 5


We tried this on a PIII 700 single CPU PC with 256 Megs of RAM as a test for
upgrading to Vantage 5 on our live system. Our 800 Meg database took between
6-8 hours to run a schema change, so 55 hours, even on a 300 MHz processor
seems a little too long. As it turned out, we had so many other problems
with Vantage 5 that we canned the whole idea of moving to 5.0. Maybe 5.1
will be less bug ridden.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Labuda
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage upgrade from 4 to 5


We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this weekend.
We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes for
55
hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2
300mhz
processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We had
crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the sever
console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is available
out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.


>snip<


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Paula
I was on vacation last week, hence the delay in responding.

We presently have a 4 gig database, running on a Netfinity 3000 450 mhz
server with 768 meg RAM.

We had a similiar problem in going from ver 4 to ver 5. I had already
done a test conversion on old data on a different (slower) server, so I
knew how long each step should take (max time since it was a slower
server). I can't remember which step, but I think it was the schema
change, was taking WAY too long on the production server. The only
difference in the conversion process between the test server and the
production server was that I ran the schema change on a workstation with
the test conversion, instead of on the server itself (as I was doing on
the production server). I decided to restart the upgrade, and ran the
schema change from a workstation, and if finished within my
expectations. ( I did the entire upgrade in a 2 day weekend.)

Another thing that seemed to help, was that I installed an additional 9
gig drive in the server (not mirrored), and did the work on it rather
than the RAID array.

Paul Labuda wrote:

> We attempted the Vantage upgrade from version 4 to version 5 this
> weekend.
> We ended up aborting the upgrade after we had been on schema changes
> for 55
> hours. I was wandering if these kind of times were normal for others
> upgrading to 5.0. We are running a Dell 4200 server with a Pentium 2
> 300mhz
> processor with 320mb of ram. Our database size is 1.6 gigabytes. We
> had
> crash protection turned off and ran the upgrade directly from the
> sever
> console. Obviously our server is slow in comparison to what is
> available
> out there, but 55 hours on schema changes seem extraordinary.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]