Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

Yahoo Archive
1
I second that!

I've requested a copy of the beta to test for myself.


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Nice,
>
> That seems a bit better!
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of cbamancov
> Sent: 25 July 2007 16:04
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
>
>
> FYI - Just pasted inserted 112 lines in 8.03.401 it took 3 min. It
> takes 4 sec to load the SO and 5 sec to save it. The server was a
> 3.4 with 2 gig. Server 2003, Progress.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@>
> wrote:
> >
> > For Reference,
> >
> > On a Test 8.00 server (4GB ram Dual core Xeons) I
> got
> > the following results for sales order entry
> >
> > Note the CPU usage and Ram usage on the client was quite high - a
> > terminal server, 1GB network
> >
> >
> >
> > Time (minutes) Lines
> >
> > 1 19
> >
> > 2 34
> >
> > 3 48
> >
> > 4 60
> >
> > 5 70
> >
> > 6 80
> >
> > 7 88
> >
> > 8 96
> >
> > 9 103
> >
> > 10 110
> >
> > 11 117
> >
> > 12 122
> >
> > 13 128
> >
> > 14 131
> >
> >
> >
> > This was through paste insert
> >
> > To load the order up again took 6 seconds
> >
> > Modifying and saving another item took 5 seconds.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Stephen Edginton
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Paul V. Blais
> > Sent: 20 July 2007 18:23
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> >
> >
> > From my experience it is much quicker but we do nowhere as many
> lines on
> > orders as the original poster. I would contact my CAM and try and
> get
> > in touch with Ben Nixon from Epicor to resolve any speed issues.
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Chris Robisch
> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:13 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> > I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on
> speed...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nigel Kerley" <nkerley@ <mailto:nkerley%40iol.ie>
> > <mailto:nkerley%40iol.ie> >
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:12 AM
> > Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> > I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before,
> but we
> > are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so
that
> if
> > they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.
> >
> > We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we
knew
> > that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live
> with
> > it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This
> company
> > has the largest number of transactions per document, and overall,
> within
> > the group which is why the problem has now come to a
> > head.
> >
> > We are recording the following data entry times:
> > Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for
> 112
> > lines)
> > Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
> > Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a
> time of
> > 3 HOURS for 192 lines)
> >
> > Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram,
> 15000rpm
> > HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.
> >
> > Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
2
I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before, but
we are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so
that if they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.

We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we knew
that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live with
it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This
company has the largest number of transactions per document, and
overall, within the group which is why the problem has now come to a
head.

We are recording the following data entry times:
Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for 112
lines)
Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a time
of 3 HOURS for 192 lines)

Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram,
15000rpm HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.

Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?

Thanks in advance,

Nigel Kerley
The Hinde Group
3
I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Kerley" <nkerley@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue


I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before, but we are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so that if they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.

We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we knew that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live with it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This company has the largest number of transactions per document, and overall, within the group which is why the problem has now come to a
head.

We are recording the following data entry times:
Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for 112 lines)
Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a time of 3 HOURS for 192 lines)

Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram, 15000rpm HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.

Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
From my experience it is much quicker but we do nowhere as many lines on
orders as the original poster. I would contact my CAM and try and get
in touch with Ben Nixon from Epicor to resolve any speed issues.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chris Robisch
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Kerley" <nkerley@... <mailto:nkerley%40iol.ie> >
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before, but we
are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so that if
they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.

We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we knew
that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live with
it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This company
has the largest number of transactions per document, and overall, within
the group which is why the problem has now come to a
head.

We are recording the following data entry times:
Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for 112
lines)
Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a time of
3 HOURS for 192 lines)

Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram, 15000rpm
HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.

Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Josh,

Our database is 3.5GB.

The issue doesn't appear to be related to the number of companies, or
the size of the database. It appears to be related to the number of
lines on a document. My own company would have the fewest lines per
doc and we haven't seen any DROP in performance as the other
companies have come onboard.

In the newest company (our US branch), Vantage gets slower as a user
adds more and more lines.

Our CAM is passing the matter as far up the Epicor tree as they can.

Regards,

Nigel.



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Holman" <jholman@...> wrote:
Nigel,

We are getting ready to pilot 8.03. Reading this worries me. How
large is your database? Was it anywhere near this slow with only one
company?

Thanks

Josh Holman
Electritek Inc.
6
Exactly. I have noticed that on the off chance we make PO's with more
than 10 lines, say, we notice a slight dip in performance, but we've
never got near the 50+ line level.





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:34 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



Josh,

Our database is 3.5GB.

The issue doesn't appear to be related to the number of companies, or
the size of the database. It appears to be related to the number of
lines on a document. My own company would have the fewest lines per
doc and we haven't seen any DROP in performance as the other
companies have come onboard.

In the newest company (our US branch), Vantage gets slower as a user
adds more and more lines.

Our CAM is passing the matter as far up the Epicor tree as they can.

Regards,

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Josh Holman" <jholman@...> wrote:
Nigel,

We are getting ready to pilot 8.03. Reading this worries me. How
large is your database? Was it anywhere near this slow with only one
company?

Thanks

Josh Holman
Electritek Inc.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
>
> I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...
>

I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer ADO.Net which
allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single trip instead
of the one-at-a-time method used today.

Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???

Mark W.
8
We are still piloting 8.03 but have seen UI speed impacted by the number of lines as well.

Of more concern, some of the apps (specifically order entry) don't seem to fully refresh all visible field data after more than 5 lines are entered.

As our people are training daily and have become more familiar with the product, they are resorting to mouse clikcing into each specific field they have experienced this problem with and then hitting the refresh icon (one field at a time).

It is a painfully inefficient process.

My personal hunch is that the (? C# coded ?) business objects behind the apps are doing a poor job of memory reclamation and just stop repainting field data when tempory variable space runs out.

Rob Brown
Versa Products

Nigel Kerley <nkerley@...> wrote:
Josh,

Our database is 3.5GB.

The issue doesn't appear to be related to the number of companies, or
the size of the database. It appears to be related to the number of
lines on a document. My own company would have the fewest lines per
doc and we haven't seen any DROP in performance as the other
companies have come onboard.

In the newest company (our US branch), Vantage gets slower as a user
adds more and more lines.

Our CAM is passing the matter as far up the Epicor tree as they can.

Regards,

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Holman" <jholman@...> wrote:
Nigel,

We are getting ready to pilot 8.03. Reading this worries me. How
large is your database? Was it anywhere near this slow with only one
company?

Thanks

Josh Holman
Electritek Inc.






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Hi Nigel,



What patch are you running?

Number of users?

What is the speed to retrieve these entries i.e pull up in order entry,
po entry?

Did you experience the same speed during piloting of these larger
orders?

What is your disk configuration?

Can you post your .pf file and how much of the DB are you buffering?

Are you running other services on the server?



What is the average speed to add a line initially?

Is there a point where adding new lines becomes slower?



Also try the same operations running the client on the server, what are
the figures then?



Regards,

Stephen Edginton



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: 20 July 2007 17:13
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before, but
we are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so
that if they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.

We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we knew
that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live with
it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This
company has the largest number of transactions per document, and
overall, within the group which is why the problem has now come to a
head.

We are recording the following data entry times:
Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for 112
lines)
Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a time
of 3 HOURS for 192 lines)

Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram,
15000rpm HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.

Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?

Thanks in advance,

Nigel Kerley
The Hinde Group







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know how
many actually put that many lines on a SO.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



>
> I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...
>

I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer ADO.Net
which
allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single trip
instead
of the one-at-a-time method used today.

Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???

Mark W.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
Also what is the method that is being used for entering the orders etc?



If they are fairly simple could they not do a paste insert into the line
section of the sale order entry screen and leave it to process?

Copy paste from Excel - this is a nice way to test speed, just running
some now...

















From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Paul V. Blais
Sent: 20 July 2007 19:14
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know how
many actually put that many lines on a SO.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

>
> I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...
>

I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer ADO.Net
which
allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single trip
instead
of the one-at-a-time method used today.

Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???

Mark W.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
For Reference,

On a Test 8.00 server (4GB ram Dual core Xeons) I got
the following results for sales order entry

Note the CPU usage and Ram usage on the client was quite high - a
terminal server, 1GB network



Time (minutes) Lines

1 19

2 34

3 48

4 60

5 70

6 80

7 88

8 96

9 103

10 110

11 117

12 122

13 128

14 131



This was through paste insert

To load the order up again took 6 seconds

Modifying and saving another item took 5 seconds.





Regards,

Stephen Edginton





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Paul V. Blais
Sent: 20 July 2007 18:23
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



From my experience it is much quicker but we do nowhere as many lines on
orders as the original poster. I would contact my CAM and try and get
in touch with Ben Nixon from Epicor to resolve any speed issues.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Chris Robisch
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on speed...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Kerley" <nkerley@... <mailto:nkerley%40iol.ie>
<mailto:nkerley%40iol.ie> >
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

I know that the speed issue has come up a number of times before, but we
are starting to have really serious issues with it. So much so that if
they aren't solved we may have to drop Vantage.

We are a group of 4 companies. As we rolled out each company we knew
that speed was going to be a issue, but we thought we could live with
it. Earlier this year we rolled out to the final company. This company
has the largest number of transactions per document, and overall, within
the group which is why the problem has now come to a
head.

We are recording the following data entry times:
Sales Order entry: average 6 mins for 42 lines (up to 16 mins for 112
lines)
Purchase Order entry: 20 mins for 112 lines
Good Received entry: 31 mins for 112 lines (one user recorded a time of
3 HOURS for 192 lines)

Our Vantage server is well speced: dual Xeon 3.2Ghz, 8GB Ram, 15000rpm
HD, Win 2003. We are running on Progress.

Is anyone else out there having anywhere near the problem we are?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
13
Hi Stephen,

The times I gave in the original post WERE for pasting. I tried
entering a PO manually to check the speed but it came out around the
same - I typed faster that Vantage registered, but obviously had to
wait at the end for Vantage to catch up and finish.

Note that you can't paste in a Goods Receipt Entry.

One problem with pasting is that the users session becomes (in
effect) frozen, so he/she can't take customer service queries until
the paste insert finishes.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Also what is the method that is being used for entering the orders
etc?
>
>
>
> If they are fairly simple could they not do a paste insert into the
line
> section of the sale order entry screen and leave it to process?
>
> Copy paste from Excel - this is a nice way to test speed, just
running
> some now...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Paul V. Blais
> Sent: 20 July 2007 19:14
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
>
>
> We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know how
> many actually put that many lines on a SO.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Mark Wonsil
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
> >
> > I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on
speed...
> >
>
> I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer
ADO.Net
> which
> allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single
trip
> instead
> of the one-at-a-time method used today.
>
> Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???
>
> Mark W.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
14
If the orders are fairly simple how about service connect / custom
application to remove the locked sessions?



Goods receipt entry you could customize to support pasting by catching
the paste insert event and processing the logic



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: 20 July 2007 20:44
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



Hi Stephen,

The times I gave in the original post WERE for pasting. I tried
entering a PO manually to check the speed but it came out around the
same - I typed faster that Vantage registered, but obviously had to
wait at the end for Vantage to catch up and finish.

Note that you can't paste in a Goods Receipt Entry.

One problem with pasting is that the users session becomes (in
effect) frozen, so he/she can't take customer service queries until
the paste insert finishes.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Also what is the method that is being used for entering the orders
etc?
>
>
>
> If they are fairly simple could they not do a paste insert into the
line
> section of the sale order entry screen and leave it to process?
>
> Copy paste from Excel - this is a nice way to test speed, just
running
> some now...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Paul V. Blais
> Sent: 20 July 2007 19:14
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
>
>
> We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know how
> many actually put that many lines on a SO.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Mark Wonsil
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
> >
> > I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on
speed...
> >
>
> I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer
ADO.Net
> which
> allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single
trip
> instead
> of the one-at-a-time method used today.
>
> Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???
>
> Mark W.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15
Interesting idea. Hadn't thought of that.

But isn't that relieving Epicor of the responsibility of producing a
usable program in the first place? Shouldn't a professional mid-
market product like Vantage be able to handle these transactions.

That said, I certainly discuss the idea with our CAM.

Thanks for the input, Stephen. Much appreciated.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> If the orders are fairly simple how about service connect / custom
> application to remove the locked sessions?
>
>
>
> Goods receipt entry you could customize to support pasting by
catching
> the paste insert event and processing the logic
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Nigel Kerley
> Sent: 20 July 2007 20:44
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> The times I gave in the original post WERE for pasting. I tried
> entering a PO manually to check the speed but it came out around
the
> same - I typed faster that Vantage registered, but obviously had to
> wait at the end for Vantage to catch up and finish.
>
> Note that you can't paste in a Goods Receipt Entry.
>
> One problem with pasting is that the users session becomes (in
> effect) frozen, so he/she can't take customer service queries until
> the paste insert finishes.
>
> Nigel.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Also what is the method that is being used for entering the
orders
> etc?
> >
> >
> >
> > If they are fairly simple could they not do a paste insert into
the
> line
> > section of the sale order entry screen and leave it to process?
> >
> > Copy paste from Excel - this is a nice way to test speed, just
> running
> > some now...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Paul V. Blais
> > Sent: 20 July 2007 19:14
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> >
> >
> > We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know
how
> > many actually put that many lines on a SO.
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Mark Wonsil
> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> > >
> > > I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on
> speed...
> > >
> >
> > I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer
> ADO.Net
> > which
> > allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single
> trip
> > instead
> > of the one-at-a-time method used today.
> >
> > Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???
> >
> > Mark W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
16
Hi Stephen,

Answers below.

Nigel.


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
>
>
> What patch are you running?
We're on 305H.

>
> Number of users?
Approx 30 users in Europe, 15 in USA. The USA office is 8 hours
behind Europe so the overlap is no more than 2 hours.

>
> What is the speed to retrieve these entries i.e pull up in order
entry,
> po entry?
To pull up SO: 15secs (133 lines), PO: 23secs (112 lines), PO
Receipt: 15secs (112 lines)

>
> Did you experience the same speed during piloting of these larger
> orders?
I suspect we didn't create large enough docs during testing.

>
> What is your disk configuration?
Application, OpenEdge and OS are on a Raid5 array. The DB itself is
on a seperate mirror array.

>
> Can you post your .pf file and how much of the DB are you buffering?
.pf file:
"-Mm 4096 -mmax 65534 -Bt 5000 -s 200 -yy 1970 -stsh 31 -inp 32000 -
tok 4000 -TB 31 -TM 32 -D 500 -l 13000
-T d:\epicor\mfgwrk803
-db f:\epicor\mfgsys803\db\mfgsys
-cpinternal utf-8 -cpstream utf-8 -cprcodein utf-8"

Blocks in DB buffer = 20,000.

>
> Are you running other services on the server?
SQL is running on the same server, but not for any intensive tasks.
It has been configured to only use 1 processor and 1GB of RAM.

>
>
> What is the average speed to add a line initially?
Approx 5 secs per line - entering manually.
Approx 4 secs per line - pasting in.

>
> Is there a point where adding new lines becomes slower?
No, not really. Becomes noticeable after c.15 lines and gets worse
from there.

>
>
>
> Also try the same operations running the client on the server, what
are
> the figures then?
Entering PO (112 lines): 22mins
Entering SO (90 lines): 10 mins
Didn't try a Goods Received - too painful!

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Edginton
>
>
>
17
RAID 5....

I would suggest making this RAID 1 mirror.



Your BI and Temporary working directories live on he Riad 5 - Very bad
for performance!

Also Your -B setting is too low your only buffering 80mb of ram for yoru
Database.....you have 8GB



Change -Mm back to 1024

I have found that this high value introduces random
delays in the system and instability.



You have quite a few things wrong here, no wonder the poor
performance.......



Regards,

Stephen Edginton



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:15
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



Hi Stephen,

Answers below.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
>
>
> What patch are you running?
We're on 305H.

>
> Number of users?
Approx 30 users in Europe, 15 in USA. The USA office is 8 hours
behind Europe so the overlap is no more than 2 hours.

>
> What is the speed to retrieve these entries i.e pull up in order
entry,
> po entry?
To pull up SO: 15secs (133 lines), PO: 23secs (112 lines), PO
Receipt: 15secs (112 lines)

>
> Did you experience the same speed during piloting of these larger
> orders?
I suspect we didn't create large enough docs during testing.

>
> What is your disk configuration?
Application, OpenEdge and OS are on a Raid5 array. The DB itself is
on a seperate mirror array.

>
> Can you post your .pf file and how much of the DB are you buffering?
.pf file:
"-Mm 4096 -mmax 65534 -Bt 5000 -s 200 -yy 1970 -stsh 31 -inp 32000 -
tok 4000 -TB 31 -TM 32 -D 500 -l 13000
-T d:\epicor\mfgwrk803
-db f:\epicor\mfgsys803\db\mfgsys
-cpinternal utf-8 -cpstream utf-8 -cprcodein utf-8"

Blocks in DB buffer = 20,000.

>
> Are you running other services on the server?
SQL is running on the same server, but not for any intensive tasks.
It has been configured to only use 1 processor and 1GB of RAM.

>
>
> What is the average speed to add a line initially?
Approx 5 secs per line - entering manually.
Approx 4 secs per line - pasting in.

>
> Is there a point where adding new lines becomes slower?
No, not really. Becomes noticeable after c.15 lines and gets worse
from there.

>
>
>
> Also try the same operations running the client on the server, what
are
> the figures then?
Entering PO (112 lines): 22mins
Entering SO (90 lines): 10 mins
Didn't try a Goods Received - too painful!

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Edginton
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18
Nigel,



Try increasing your # of DB block in buffers. 20,000 is way to small for
3.5GB database. Here is the parameters from the Epicor tuning guide:



For a 4k block size database use the following formula:



Setting: 10,000 = 42.2 MB of RAM



For an 8k block size database use the following formula:



Setting: 10,000 = 83.8 MB of RAM



The higher the number the more you will preload your database into RAM
thus making it faster "in theory". I don't know your entire setup, but
looking at what you posted, this is going to be the one thing you will
want to increase...Yes, it is common to have a setting of over 100,000.



Check your anti-virus too and make sure that all client workstations are
not set to scan network drives and the epicor directories.



I have not used .400 yet so I too am curious to see how the performance
differs.



Thanks,



Jason Claggett

Microsoft Small Business Specialist

MCP #3856159

2W Technologies, LLC

317.578.2393

jason@...

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 4:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



Hi Stephen,

Answers below.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
>
>
> What patch are you running?
We're on 305H.

>
> Number of users?
Approx 30 users in Europe, 15 in USA. The USA office is 8 hours
behind Europe so the overlap is no more than 2 hours.

>
> What is the speed to retrieve these entries i.e pull up in order
entry,
> po entry?
To pull up SO: 15secs (133 lines), PO: 23secs (112 lines), PO
Receipt: 15secs (112 lines)

>
> Did you experience the same speed during piloting of these larger
> orders?
I suspect we didn't create large enough docs during testing.

>
> What is your disk configuration?
Application, OpenEdge and OS are on a Raid5 array. The DB itself is
on a seperate mirror array.

>
> Can you post your .pf file and how much of the DB are you buffering?
.pf file:
"-Mm 4096 -mmax 65534 -Bt 5000 -s 200 -yy 1970 -stsh 31 -inp 32000 -
tok 4000 -TB 31 -TM 32 -D 500 -l 13000
-T d:\epicor\mfgwrk803
-db f:\epicor\mfgsys803\db\mfgsys
-cpinternal utf-8 -cpstream utf-8 -cprcodein utf-8"

Blocks in DB buffer = 20,000.

>
> Are you running other services on the server?
SQL is running on the same server, but not for any intensive tasks.
It has been configured to only use 1 processor and 1GB of RAM.

>
>
> What is the average speed to add a line initially?
Approx 5 secs per line - entering manually.
Approx 4 secs per line - pasting in.

>
> Is there a point where adding new lines becomes slower?
No, not really. Becomes noticeable after c.15 lines and gets worse
from there.

>
>
>
> Also try the same operations running the client on the server, what
are
> the figures then?
Entering PO (112 lines): 22mins
Entering SO (90 lines): 10 mins
Didn't try a Goods Received - too painful!

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Edginton
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
19
Yes, I forgot to mention RAID 5...you will want to use RAID 10 for BEST
results...at least RAID 1...avoid RAID 5.



Thanks,



Jason Claggett

Microsoft Small Business Specialist

MCP #3856159

2W Technologies, LLC

317.578.2393

jason@...

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Stephen Edginton
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 4:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



RAID 5....

I would suggest making this RAID 1 mirror.

Your BI and Temporary working directories live on he Riad 5 - Very bad
for performance!

Also Your -B setting is too low your only buffering 80mb of ram for yoru
Database.....you have 8GB

Change -Mm back to 1024

I have found that this high value introduces random
delays in the system and instability.

You have quite a few things wrong here, no wonder the poor
performance.......

Regards,

Stephen Edginton

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:15
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue

Hi Stephen,

Answers below.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
>
>
> What patch are you running?
We're on 305H.

>
> Number of users?
Approx 30 users in Europe, 15 in USA. The USA office is 8 hours
behind Europe so the overlap is no more than 2 hours.

>
> What is the speed to retrieve these entries i.e pull up in order
entry,
> po entry?
To pull up SO: 15secs (133 lines), PO: 23secs (112 lines), PO
Receipt: 15secs (112 lines)

>
> Did you experience the same speed during piloting of these larger
> orders?
I suspect we didn't create large enough docs during testing.

>
> What is your disk configuration?
Application, OpenEdge and OS are on a Raid5 array. The DB itself is
on a seperate mirror array.

>
> Can you post your .pf file and how much of the DB are you buffering?
.pf file:
"-Mm 4096 -mmax 65534 -Bt 5000 -s 200 -yy 1970 -stsh 31 -inp 32000 -
tok 4000 -TB 31 -TM 32 -D 500 -l 13000
-T d:\epicor\mfgwrk803
-db f:\epicor\mfgsys803\db\mfgsys
-cpinternal utf-8 -cpstream utf-8 -cprcodein utf-8"

Blocks in DB buffer = 20,000.

>
> Are you running other services on the server?
SQL is running on the same server, but not for any intensive tasks.
It has been configured to only use 1 processor and 1GB of RAM.

>
>
> What is the average speed to add a line initially?
Approx 5 secs per line - entering manually.
Approx 4 secs per line - pasting in.

>
> Is there a point where adding new lines becomes slower?
No, not really. Becomes noticeable after c.15 lines and gets worse
from there.

>
>
>
> Also try the same operations running the client on the server, what
are
> the figures then?
Entering PO (112 lines): 22mins
Entering SO (90 lines): 10 mins
Didn't try a Goods Received - too painful!

>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Edginton
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
20
Well,

I would say its usable, and that piloting should have
identified this as an issue, requirements specification stages should
have mandated the number of transactions and application responsiveness,
but

I agree some of the application is slow and unnecessarily so.

Hopefully though with the 803.400 release, they now can utilize the
updated OpenEdge and open client frameworks to increase the performance
and responsiveness of the application.

We have also found that client performance has an important role to play




Regards,

Stephen Edginton



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nigel Kerley
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:07
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue



Interesting idea. Hadn't thought of that.

But isn't that relieving Epicor of the responsibility of producing a
usable program in the first place? Shouldn't a professional mid-
market product like Vantage be able to handle these transactions.

That said, I certainly discuss the idea with our CAM.

Thanks for the input, Stephen. Much appreciated.

Nigel.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Edginton" <stephene@...>
wrote:
>
> If the orders are fairly simple how about service connect / custom
> application to remove the locked sessions?
>
>
>
> Goods receipt entry you could customize to support pasting by
catching
> the paste insert event and processing the logic
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Nigel Kerley
> Sent: 20 July 2007 20:44
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> The times I gave in the original post WERE for pasting. I tried
> entering a PO manually to check the speed but it came out around
the
> same - I typed faster that Vantage registered, but obviously had to
> wait at the end for Vantage to catch up and finish.
>
> Note that you can't paste in a Goods Receipt Entry.
>
> One problem with pasting is that the users session becomes (in
> effect) frozen, so he/she can't take customer service queries until
> the paste insert finishes.
>
> Nigel.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Stephen Edginton" <stephene@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Also what is the method that is being used for entering the
orders
> etc?
> >
> >
> >
> > If they are fairly simple could they not do a paste insert into
the
> line
> > section of the sale order entry screen and leave it to process?
> >
> > Copy paste from Excel - this is a nice way to test speed, just
> running
> > some now...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Paul V. Blais
> > Sent: 20 July 2007 19:14
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> >
> >
> > We have never been told not to speak about it. I just don't know
how
> > many actually put that many lines on a SO.
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Mark Wonsil
> > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:06 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8.03 Speed Issue
> >
> > >
> > > I'd especially like to hear from the 8.03.400 beta clients on
> speed...
> > >
> >
> > I agree with Chris. 8.03.400 is supposed to be using the newer
> ADO.Net
> > which
> > allows for batch updating. All 112 lines will update in a single
> trip
> > instead
> > of the one-at-a-time method used today.
> >
> > Anyone on 8.03.400 allowed to discuss the performance???
> >
> > Mark W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]