Using Hard Drives As Back Up

John,

I'm backing up some at night, and some incrementally several times during
the day, using V2i software by Powerquest to create images at about 50% of
the size of the original data size to a mirrored set of hard drives in hot
swappable cartridges, one drive of which gets swapped out depending on the
rotation schedule. The amount of data is such that I should be able to get
3 full sets of all my files on all my servers on a 200G HD. I'll be basing
my rotation on that, when I finally figure out what works best. Right now
that's still up in the air.

As with any product, there are pro's and con's, I have noticed from the
short time I've been using this. This software is definitely not for
everyone, but I have a lot of data, need quick recovery time in the case of
a complete server meltdown, and want to get all my servers in one shot,
using as little space as possible. Since these are IDE HD's, they can be
mounted anywhere on the network anytime for archive restoration without
worrying about obsolescence in the near future.

As other people in this group pointed out, tapes are cheaper than HD's, and
tape technology is proven and familiar. But in the long-run, I think that
will all work itself out. I bought fast and reliable HD's - Maxtor 200G 8M
buffer 7200 IDE ATA133. And V2i demands lots of ram on the servers if you
don't want to drag them down. The backup history and record-keeping is
lacking in V2i - I'm figuring out as I go, how I'll handle that. Nasty
learning curve - maybe I just have writer's block (no pun intended) against
anything but a tape system. It has been a lot of work to get to this point.

As far as backing up to HD, I'd guess there are about as many ideas on how
to do that as there are people in this group. But once I get the kinks
worked out, this method should be fine. Backup systems and rotation schemes
are subjective and at best a PITA. Take your time and consider at all the
variables.

Gary


PS - Here are some excerpts from an older message I sent to the group:

>>Re the cost - don't forget that $3000 will get you the basic setup. A
Main HD and 3 Secondary HD's to swap. The cost of the remaining Secondary
HD's will vary, depending on your rotation plan.

>>Re taping the image -- that's what's it's doing now, only to HD. It uses
mirrored set of HD's. V2i images to the Main HD during the night (I backup
some files during the day multiple times too). Main HD and a Secondary HD
are a mirrored set. The Main HD isn't touched. The Secondary HD is swapped
out each day. The Secondary HD rebuilds it's portion of the mirrored set
during the day from the images of the night before.

>>It sounds simple, but the setup took a bit of configuring before we got it
operating smoothly. I was assured that's not always the case, but you may
want to make sure you don't have something there that would get in the way
of V2i.





-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


Hi Gary,

I am interested in backing up with hard drives. Can you tell me a little
more about how you are doing it. Do you have special software for it? What
about using xcopy and a task to backup nightly or are you backing up
realtime?

Thanks,
John Mansfield
General Sheet Metal





-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Polvinale [mailto:garyp@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up



Hi Shirley,

How's the towmotoring? I drove one for a couple of years. It can even
be
fun at times. As long as you don't back anyone into a wall (been the
one
backed into), or rip out a steam pipe (been the one doing the ripping).

I'm putting together my backup-HD rotation for the new HD backup system.
Reviewing the old threads from the Vantage group on the subject, your
rotation scheme seems pretty sensible. If you have time for a few
words...
Are you still using this rotation? And what do you do for year-end
backups?

Thanks. Happy towmotoring!
Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate
reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a
cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday
Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a
real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than
nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today...
You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..
My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's see, hard drive = $100 ; tape = $5
That'd be reason enough for my boss.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:12 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Tape Drive $700-$2500 depending on type.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Finn [mailto:matt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


Let's see, hard drive = $100 ; tape = $5
That'd be reason enough for my boss.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:12 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your
email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and
other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today... You can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..
Firewire Hard drives could be taken of site. Fantom makes some good ones.
I've got a 60 GB Fantom firewire drive that we got for less than $275 It's
a little bulky, but rugged as well. How 'bout a scenario where the backup is
restored to an offsite PC or a backup server? This tests the integrity of
the backup.

Better yet, use removeable hard drive bays. I know you can get 'em for IDE
drives at about $10 apiece. Just get a rotating set of five or so, and
you're good to go. However, we all know how reliable IDE hard drives
are.....


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:16 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today... You can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
daily backups to 5 tapes rotated, couple from prior months, couple for
offsite, how many hard drives is that again? And do hard drives fit in your
shirt pocket when taking off site?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Hofert [mailto:thofert@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


Tape Drive $700-$2500 depending on type.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Finn [mailto:matt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


Let's see, hard drive = $100 ; tape = $5
That'd be reason enough for my boss.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:12 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your
email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and
other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today... You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>The more appropriate reason rather than a 911 disaster are infections.

Excellent point. We've had viruses and variants come through our e-mail
before Norton had a fix. Luckily the particular user was cautious enough
that it was never opened.

Sooner or later there may be one that does some serious damage, over a
period of time.

Then there's the possibility of being hacked, from within as well as
without.

A bummer with some older tape systems is that as the tape drive dies, it's
heads go a bit out of alignment, so the tapes cannot be read by any drive
other than the old dying one. I believe newer technology remedies this.

Thaddeus Jacobs
Information Solutions Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today... You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Dina,
The biggest reason for tapes may be the ability to store them offsite, unless that's what you are planning to do with each of the 5 hard drives (one for each day). But in reality, many companies never end up taking the tapes off-site. I backup our Vantage database once per week on my laptop and take it home for the week to use as a test database, which also verifies that the backup worked.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Dina Hieber
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's difficult - not impossible - to remove a hard drive and take it home
every night (for off-sight disaster preparedness). And the tapes for a tape
back-up drive are more expensive than $5. Course, if you're sure that there
will never be a fire, flood, earthquake, tornado, hurricane, blizzard that
collapses the roof over the server, sink-hole or man-made disaster, then
leave it to back up on disks. But don't call me paranoid, just careful.

Livin' in Earthquake country for 25 years,

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Finn [mailto:matt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:13 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up

Let's see, hard drive = $100 ; tape = $5
That'd be reason enough for my boss.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:12 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy everything
to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system. I could
not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons.

thanks,,

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi Shirley,

How's the towmotoring? I drove one for a couple of years. It can even be
fun at times. As long as you don't back anyone into a wall (been the one
backed into), or rip out a steam pipe (been the one doing the ripping).

I'm putting together my backup-HD rotation for the new HD backup system.
Reviewing the old threads from the Vantage group on the subject, your
rotation scheme seems pretty sensible. If you have time for a few words...
Are you still using this rotation? And what do you do for year-end backups?

Thanks. Happy towmotoring!
Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today... You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi Gary,



I am interested in backing up with hard drives. Can you tell me a little
more

about how you are doing it. Do you have special software for it?

What about using xcopy and a task to backup nightly or are you

backing up realtime?



Thanks,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal





-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Polvinale [mailto:garyp@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up



Hi Shirley,

How's the towmotoring? I drove one for a couple of years. It can even
be
fun at times. As long as you don't back anyone into a wall (been the
one
backed into), or rip out a steam pipe (been the one doing the ripping).

I'm putting together my backup-HD rotation for the new HD backup system.
Reviewing the old threads from the Vantage group on the subject, your
rotation scheme seems pretty sensible. If you have time for a few
words...
Are you still using this rotation? And what do you do for year-end
backups?

Thanks. Happy towmotoring!
Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate
reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a
cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday
Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a
real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than
nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today...
You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm still using the rotation scheme. I haven't really retained a
"annual". What I do instead is every two years I retire the whole set
and retain those. Then start fresh with a whole new set. One of the
issues is changing technology, what do you do about tapes when you no
longer have the equipment to use them. At best I might burn a CD with
the data base for retention. For those of you with greater than 650
megs of data base you can compress them into WINRAR files which will
break them up into however many 15 meg files. That will allow you to
split to multiple CD's. Even there the issue is no matter how long it
takes the disk to degrade in nature the data is not necessarily
retrievable even if the disk is intact. There is still degredation in
the dyes used to record the data.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Polvinale [mailto:garyp@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up

Hi Shirley,

How's the towmotoring? I drove one for a couple of years. It can even
be
fun at times. As long as you don't back anyone into a wall (been the
one
backed into), or rip out a steam pipe (been the one doing the ripping).

I'm putting together my backup-HD rotation for the new HD backup system.
Reviewing the old threads from the Vantage group on the subject, your
rotation scheme seems pretty sensible. If you have time for a few
words...
Are you still using this rotation? And what do you do for year-end
backups?

Thanks. Happy towmotoring!
Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate
reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a
cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday
Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a
real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than
nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today...
You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

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o=60178323&partid=4116719> click here


<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116719.5338353.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=:HM/A=1754451/rand=708506427>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

Tracking #: 5C615F26C780D442A074C2FD81EB8301A9A7CBDE


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John
Check out robocopy.exe. It's available from Microsilly or on your Win2k
cd. You can do mirror imaging from one hard drive to another.

Cliff Drumeller
IT Manager
Mass Precision Sheetmetal
408 954 0200

-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 7:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


Hi Gary,



I am interested in backing up with hard drives. Can you tell me a little
more

about how you are doing it. Do you have special software for it?

What about using xcopy and a task to backup nightly or are you

backing up realtime?



Thanks,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal





-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Polvinale [mailto:garyp@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:12 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up



Hi Shirley,

How's the towmotoring? I drove one for a couple of years. It can even
be
fun at times. As long as you don't back anyone into a wall (been the
one
backed into), or rip out a steam pipe (been the one doing the ripping).

I'm putting together my backup-HD rotation for the new HD backup system.
Reviewing the old threads from the Vantage group on the subject, your
rotation scheme seems pretty sensible. If you have time for a few
words...
Are you still using this rotation? And what do you do for year-end
backups?

Thanks. Happy towmotoring!
Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


I carry tapes off site, and I also build repair computers here. You use
tapes so that you have backups covering days. The more appropriate
reason
rather than a 911 disaster are infections. Much more common than a
cratered
worksite. If your backups are infected, then you start moving back down
your tape chain. I use a 10 tape cycle. Monday Tuesday Wednesday
Thursday
1st Friday 2nd Friday 3rd Friday 1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month. I a
real
worse case you can have clean data back three months. Better than
nothing.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH


Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Using Hard Drives As Back Up


pro - fast, cheap

con - If the server blows up, all the backups go with it. Tapes can be
stored offsite.

Basically what it comes down to in this and another thread today...
You
can
have as much redundancy as you want, but it will cost you.

> -----Original Message-----
> My boss asked me why shouldn't we buy 5 hard drives and copy
> everything
> to them every night, instead of buying a back up tape system.
> I could
> not give a good answer - does anyone have a pros or cons..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>








Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

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007183:HM/A=1754451/R=0/SIG=11tpj98m3/*http:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqs
o=60178323&partid=4116719> click here



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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116719.5338353.1261774/D=egrou>
pmail/S=:HM/A=1754451/rand=708506427>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]