SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

[system]

In August of 2010, we moved from Vantage using Progress to Epicor using Progress. It still took two days to do the conversion.

Regards,

Dale

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Roberts" <broberts@...> wrote:
>
> We are in the middle of converting from Vantage 6.1 (on Progress) to
> Epicor 9.05 on MS SQL. We looked briefly at going to 9.05 on Progress,
> but went MS SQL because of in-house SQL knowledge (& lack of Progress
> knowledge), reporting, and other planned development that will be using
> SQL. We didn't look seriously at the Progress-with-replication-to-SQL
> option, but after seeing all the Progress app servers, schema holder
> database, admin tools etc still required, I think we should have
> investigated it more.
>
>
>
> One detail not mentioned below: if you have a Progress database now,
> getting that converted to MS SQL takes money (to Epicor) and time (a
> couple days for our database). I have no idea how this compares to the
> cost & install time for the replication option, but that 2 day
> conversion time is a headache for us.
>
>
>
> Brian.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of pbparker
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:57 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
>
>
>
> I've contemplated converting over to SQL but I can never get a cost from
> Epicor on how much it's going to cost to convert. They say it all
> depends - but are never specific so I have no ballpark figure even on
> what the cost is going to be. Kind of unreal.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , Toby
> Boogerd <tboogerd@> wrote:
> >
> > Just wanted to follow-up and see what options you chose and how that
> all worked out for you. We are currently on 6.1 Progress and I would
> like to get to E9 on progress with replication to SQL. Anyone having
> done this or in the process I would love to hear how you did it, the
> process, and the experience (good or bad) and how things are today.
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of saab_barracuda
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:33 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Pim! This sounds like the best option I've heard. Best of both
> worlds like you said. It seems we are looking at midyear 2010 at the
> earliest for the upgrade so we have some time to investigate these new
> options with E9. MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Pim Zandbergen <P.Zandbergen@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Vic Drecchio wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I
> have
> > > > to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
> > > Because, at the heart, Vantage 8/Epicor 9 is a Progress application.
> > >
> > > Epicor marketing seems to be hiding this fact alltogether.
> > > They only talk about Epicor using Microsoft Technlogy.
> > >
> > > Sure, it is not untrue; the client is written in .Net (using
> Progress
> > > Open Client technology) and the backend can be a third party
> database,
> > > using ODBC, SQL Server in this case. But the core technology is
> Progress.
> > >
> > > That means the Progress database is native to the application.
> > > Progress Appservers use shared memory to access the Progress
> database.
> > >
> > > If you want to replace the Progress database with SQL Server, you
> are
> > > actually replacing the Progress database with a Progress dataserver,
> > > a process that translates Progress 4GL data requests to ODBC.
> > > Go figure how efficient that could ever be. It also means you still
> > > need to know about Progress to keep things running. In fact you
> > > need to know even more, because you need to install more Progress
> > > software modules than native Progress database users have to.
> > >
> > > Of course, you could spend more on hardware in order to compensate
> for
> > > the inefficiency. But spending that extra money on even better
> hardware
> > > for Progress will be more rewarding. You need all the performance
> you
> > > can get to keep your users satisfied.
> > >
> > > Having said that, it should also be said that Epicor 9 allows you to
> > > benefit from the best of both worlds. Epicor 9 now allows your
> Progress
> > > database to be replicated to an external SQL Server database,
> allowing
> > > you to do all your reporting, data mining and business intelligence
> > > from that secondary database.
> > >
> > > This is really ideal. Your Progress database is only used to
> efficiently
> > > serve your core application, and reporting is done on a platform
> that
> > > excels in that area.
> > >
> > > Having this secondary server running SQL Server is a good idea for
> other
> > > stuff too. It's the best place for Service Connect, for Portal, for
> > > Information Worker, for PLM, for APM and lots of other modules that
> > > require SQL Server for their private storage.
> > >
> > > Epicor 9 Enterprise Search (which is really cool) _requires_ this
> kind of
> > > setup if you use a Progress database.
> > >
> > > Pim
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1 (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn

[system]

We are on 8.03.408A Progress and my two cents worth is that SQL is great if you don't mind the extra exspense. You gain the advantage of more flexability with data integration and reporting. Some will claim data management is better with SQL, but I never do anything with the Progress database except back it up. We will stay on Progress when we upgrade to 9. Its not the cost, its that I want to keep all the reporting within Vantage, and Crystal along with BAQs gives us all the reporting we need. The fewer external applications and processes I have to deal with, the better. We already have to many the way it is (with Insite Manefest, Service Connect, Tie Commerce, etc.).

So I guess what I am saying is SQL is a must for some people, nice for others, but for us its just not needed for Vantage. I do have three SQL servers, they are for other things.



________________________________
From: saab_barracuda <chris.clunn@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:27:55 AM
Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Â
I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal with on reporting.. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1 (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

BAQ Reports are really nice - something that 8 doesn't offer. So a lot of
the really neat things that you can do directly in SQL undermine the BAQ
report functionality that Epicor is now using -- running a Query and having
the data go to XML is really nice. You might want to try out the BAQ
Reporting before making your final decision.



I've worked in SQL for 10 years now and while I find the BAQ/Progress thing
limiting at times I find the BAQ Reports easy to work with and can always go
to ODBC for things that I can't do directly in BAQ Reports.



SQL does offer you other advantages such as being able to keep multiple
databases within a single SQL instance (getting rid of Access databases
and/or Excel spreadsheets and moving them into SQL) which can then be handy
when looking at your company's data, being able to use SQL reporting
services, writing your own triggers/procedures/functions/etc, recursive
queries (i.e. BOM's). However, it is that same flexibility that can also
create HUGE problems if you don't know what you are doing.



While I prefer SQL it does require some upkeep. SQL is incredibly powerful
and can do amazing things but you need to be well versed in how to work
within SQL to take advantage of this power. I remember when I knew enough to
be dangerous and could bring a database to its knees with a badly written
query/trigger/view/proc/etc. I have since learned a lot, out of necessity,
about SQL so that I can avoid these pitfalls and can rewrite those objects
that are badly written.



Personally I like the flexibility that I have with SQL, but I also have the
experience to make it worth my while.



--Sean





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steven Gotschall
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:59 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9





We are on 8.03.408A Progress and my two cents worth is that SQL is great if
you don't mind the extra exspense. You gain the advantage of more
flexability with data integration and reporting. Some will claim data
management is better with SQL, but I never do anything with the Progress
database except back it up. We will stay on Progress when we upgrade to 9.
Its not the cost, its that I want to keep all the reporting within Vantage,
and Crystal along with BAQs gives us all the reporting we need. The fewer
external applications and processes I have to deal with, the better. We
already have to many the way it is (with Insite Manefest, Service Connect,
Tie Commerce, etc.).

So I guess what I am saying is SQL is a must for some people, nice for
others, but for us its just not needed for Vantage. I do have three SQL
servers, they are for other things.

________________________________
From: saab_barracuda <chris.clunn@...
<mailto:chris.clunn%40barracudaus.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:27:55 AM
Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9


I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing upgrading to
E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very stable and
easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal with on
reporting.. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have exclusive access
to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries and I
can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program for
enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal with.
However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we don't have
a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set it and forget
it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it was initially setup.
Additionally, I am concerned about reducing performance. Ver 8 is already
much slower performance than Ver 6.1 (never mind usability issues), and E9
is supposed to be even slower. I don't want to add any more overhead with
the additional interface with SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress to E9
on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any performance, admin,
or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

SQL SQL SQL!!!

Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
understand. SQL is Freedom.

My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
to go with Vantage on a Progress database?

I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?

Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.

All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
is easier.

SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.

BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
freedom of SQL.





-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of saab_barracuda
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
(never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[system]

> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on
> Progress to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8
> on SQL? Any performance, admin, or other issues? I'd
> appreciate any input.

I've grown to like Progress and I prefer not to use ODBC when possible, but
even if you go with Progress, invest in a full version of SQL. Many products
require it: Service Connect, Replication Server, Portal Server, etc. If you
want to use SharePoint in any serious way, you'll want a SQL server
available to you.

Mark W.

[system]

Yes Vic. SQL is good if you have an administrator that can use it and is
knowledgeable in it but there is a cost to it. Otherwise, Progress. You
will need SQL if you use other components that require it, as Mark said,
but otherwise no.



Go with progress because it works, it's free and you have no other
needs.

Go with SQL because you have a database manager that is knowledgeable,
you have a need for it or there is a business reason for adopting it and
you don't mind paying for it.



Review the different applications outside of the core E9 like the Epicor
Everywhere, Information Worker, Service Connect and other web services.
These will determine what your decision is. Freedom is hard work.



Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com





________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:35 AM



SQL SQL SQL!!!

Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
understand. SQL is Freedom.

My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
to go with Vantage on a Progress database?

I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?

Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.

All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data management
is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics is easier.

SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.

BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're on
SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
freedom of SQL.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of saab_barracuda
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
(never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

I vote for SQL all the way, and if I'm not mistaken, some of the new fancy reporting for Epicor 9 requires it?

Charlie is right that you have to pay someone who understands how to manage it, but really there's not much involved unless you get very large with the db. And the flip side is, if you have a major crisis, there are many people familiar with SQL and to find a Progress expert is going to be difficult and costly.

-Ramsey

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "CharlieSmith" <CSmith@...> wrote:
>
> Yes Vic. SQL is good if you have an administrator that can use it and is
> knowledgeable in it but there is a cost to it. Otherwise, Progress. You
> will need SQL if you use other components that require it, as Mark said,
> but otherwise no.
>
>
>
> Go with progress because it works, it's free and you have no other
> needs.
>
> Go with SQL because you have a database manager that is knowledgeable,
> you have a need for it or there is a business reason for adopting it and
> you don't mind paying for it.
>
>
>
> Review the different applications outside of the core E9 like the Epicor
> Everywhere, Information Worker, Service Connect and other web services.
> These will determine what your decision is. Freedom is hard work.
>
>
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:35 AM
>
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data management
> is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're on
> SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

I would not say that. Finding progress people is no more difficult than
finding SQL people. You need to find people that are familiar with the
database and the app. As for costly, I disagree there as well.



Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com







From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ramsey_burns
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:08 PM



... And the flip side is, if you have a major crisis, there are many
people familiar with SQL and to find a Progress expert is going to be
difficult and costly.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

We had thought about moving to SQL over our current progress, but Epicor
and some of our consultants say that there is a performance hit with SQL
over Progress. Have you noticed anything like that?



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ramsey_burns
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:08 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9





I vote for SQL all the way, and if I'm not mistaken, some of the new
fancy reporting for Epicor 9 requires it?

Charlie is right that you have to pay someone who understands how to
manage it, but really there's not much involved unless you get very
large with the db. And the flip side is, if you have a major crisis,
there are many people familiar with SQL and to find a Progress expert is
going to be difficult and costly.

-Ramsey

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"CharlieSmith" <CSmith@...> wrote:

>
> Yes Vic. SQL is good if you have an administrator that can use it and

is

> knowledgeable in it but there is a cost to it. Otherwise, Progress.

You

> will need SQL if you use other components that require it, as Mark

said,

> but otherwise no.
>
>
>
> Go with progress because it works, it's free and you have no other
> needs.
>
> Go with SQL because you have a database manager that is knowledgeable,
> you have a need for it or there is a business reason for adopting it

and

> you don't mind paying for it.
>
>
>
> Review the different applications outside of the core E9 like the

Epicor

> Everywhere, Information Worker, Service Connect and other web

services.

> These will determine what your decision is. Freedom is hard work.
>
>
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:35 AM
>
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North

Korea's

> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of

clever

> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data

management

> is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics is easier.

>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on

Vantage

> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're

on

> SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf
> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress

for

> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought

about

> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to

deal

> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop

program

> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and

we

> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco

"set

> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9


SQL SQL SQL!!!

Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
understand. SQL is Freedom.

My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
to go with Vantage on a Progress database?

I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?

Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.

All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
is easier.

SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.

BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
freedom of SQL.





-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of saab_barracuda
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
SQL database.

We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.

Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.

So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
(never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
SQL.

So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Chris Clunn

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

There *was* a performance hit. Up until version 8.03.4xx that was
correct statement. Since then it has been significantly improved.
There will always be a *slight* performance hit because you are still
running Progress on that server, too. Vantage talks to Progress *first*
in all scenarios and then Progress passes the data to SQL.

How "slight" that performance hit is, is determined by your hardware
(CPU, Disk array, RAM).

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Matt Caldwell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:46 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

We had thought about moving to SQL over our current progress, but Epicor
and some of our consultants say that there is a performance hit with SQL
over Progress. Have you noticed anything like that?



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ramsey_burns
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:08 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9





I vote for SQL all the way, and if I'm not mistaken, some of the new
fancy reporting for Epicor 9 requires it?

Charlie is right that you have to pay someone who understands how to
manage it, but really there's not much involved unless you get very
large with the db. And the flip side is, if you have a major crisis,
there are many people familiar with SQL and to find a Progress expert is
going to be difficult and costly.

-Ramsey

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"CharlieSmith" <CSmith@...> wrote:

>
> Yes Vic. SQL is good if you have an administrator that can use it and

is

> knowledgeable in it but there is a cost to it. Otherwise, Progress.

You

> will need SQL if you use other components that require it, as Mark

said,

> but otherwise no.
>
>
>
> Go with progress because it works, it's free and you have no other
> needs.
>
> Go with SQL because you have a database manager that is knowledgeable,
> you have a need for it or there is a business reason for adopting it

and

> you don't mind paying for it.
>
>
>
> Review the different applications outside of the core E9 like the

Epicor

> Everywhere, Information Worker, Service Connect and other web

services.

> These will determine what your decision is. Freedom is hard work.
>
>
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:35 AM
>
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North

Korea's

> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of

clever

> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data

management

> is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics is easier.

>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on

Vantage

> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're

on

> SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf
> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress

for

> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought

about

> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to

deal

> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop

program

> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and

we

> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco

"set

> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[system]

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, advantage@... wrote:
>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.



If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it is
free they are going to use it.



The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.



The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.



But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.



We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our needs.



As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.



~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9





Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

I find it interesting that you have as many ODBC reports as you do. I wrote one ODBC report early on. The first time I ran it, coincidentally a number of users were complaining about how much Vista had slowed down. When I ran the report the second time and users again complained about slowness, I assumed it was not coincidence, and have abandoned ODBC since then. Was I right the first time, and it was just a coincidence? Or, does ODBC hit the database hard enough to cause noticeable performance issues? We run Progress 10.1B, and Vista 8.03.403D - No SQL Server.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9



As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.

If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it is
free they are going to use it.

The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.

The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.

But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.

We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our needs.

As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>

yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

The only thing I have faced with ODBC is that I had one get hung and it
pretty much hosed the server. We run a pretty beefy server we have some
financial reports that take 15 to 20 minutes to run and I don't have users
complaining when the CFO runs those.



~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?





I find it interesting that you have as many ODBC reports as you do. I wrote
one ODBC report early on. The first time I ran it, coincidentally a number
of users were complaining about how much Vista had slowed down. When I ran
the report the second time and users again complained about slowness, I
assumed it was not coincidence, and have abandoned ODBC since then. Was I
right the first time, and it was just a coincidence? Or, does ODBC hit the
database hard enough to cause noticeable performance issues? We run Progress
10.1B, and Vista 8.03.403D - No SQL Server.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electric <http://www.electricmirror.com>
mirror.com>
From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.

If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it is
free they are going to use it.

The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.

The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.

But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.

We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our needs.

As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North Korea's
> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of clever
> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on Vantage
> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress for
> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought about
> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to deal
> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop program
> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and we
> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco "set
> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Charlie,

How much RAM is on your server?



Thanks,

Blake Clemens

IT Systems Engineer

Delmarva Millwork Corporation

(800) 360-2364 x132

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?





The only thing I have faced with ODBC is that I had one get hung and it
pretty much hosed the server. We run a pretty beefy server we have some
financial reports that take 15 to 20 minutes to run and I don't have
users
complaining when the CFO runs those.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?

I find it interesting that you have as many ODBC reports as you do. I
wrote
one ODBC report early on. The first time I ran it, coincidentally a
number
of users were complaining about how much Vista had slowed down. When I
ran
the report the second time and users again complained about slowness, I
assumed it was not coincidence, and have abandoned ODBC since then. Was
I
right the first time, and it was just a coincidence? Or, does ODBC hit
the
database hard enough to cause noticeable performance issues? We run
Progress
10.1B, and Vista 8.03.403D - No SQL Server.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electric
<http://www.electricmirror.com>
mirror.com>
From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is
not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.

If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a
separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it
is
free they are going to use it.

The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.

The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds
and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.

But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.

We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the
canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our
needs.

As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every
penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the
same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North

Korea's

> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of

clever

> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on

Vantage

> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress

for

> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought

about

> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to

deal

> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop

program

> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and

we

> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco

"set

> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Blake Clemens
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:49 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?





Charlie,

How much RAM is on your server?

Thanks,

Blake Clemens

IT Systems Engineer

Delmarva Millwork Corporation

(800) 360-2364 x132

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?

The only thing I have faced with ODBC is that I had one get hung and it
pretty much hosed the server. We run a pretty beefy server we have some
financial reports that take 15 to 20 minutes to run and I don't have
users
complaining when the CFO runs those.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?

I find it interesting that you have as many ODBC reports as you do. I
wrote
one ODBC report early on. The first time I ran it, coincidentally a
number
of users were complaining about how much Vista had slowed down. When I
ran
the report the second time and users again complained about slowness, I
assumed it was not coincidence, and have abandoned ODBC since then. Was
I
right the first time, and it was just a coincidence? Or, does ODBC hit
the
database hard enough to cause noticeable performance issues? We run
Progress
10.1B, and Vista 8.03.403D - No SQL Server.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electric
<http://www.electric <http://www.electricmirror.com> mirror.com>
mirror.com>
From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is
not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.

If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a
separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it
is
free they are going to use it.

The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.

The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds
and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.

But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.

We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the
canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our
needs.

As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every
penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the
same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North

Korea's

> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of

clever

> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on

Vantage

> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress

for

> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought

about

> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to

deal

> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop

program

> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and

we

> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco

"set

> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

We run Virtual servers..



The erp server has 8 gigs of ram and 4 CPUs.



The ram and procs arent the problem when running reports it's your hard
drive configuration.



Our DB sits on a stand alone set of drives with nothing else on them. It's a
raid 10 configuration with 8 drives. 14K RMP SAS drives.



~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Blake Clemens
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:49 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?





Charlie,

How much RAM is on your server?

Thanks,

Blake Clemens

IT Systems Engineer

Delmarva Millwork Corporation

(800) 360-2364 x132

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?

The only thing I have faced with ODBC is that I had one get hung and it
pretty much hosed the server. We run a pretty beefy server we have some
financial reports that take 15 to 20 minutes to run and I don't have
users
complaining when the CFO runs those.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] ODBC Performance Hit?

I find it interesting that you have as many ODBC reports as you do. I
wrote
one ODBC report early on. The first time I ran it, coincidentally a
number
of users were complaining about how much Vista had slowed down. When I
ran
the report the second time and users again complained about slowness, I
assumed it was not coincidence, and have abandoned ODBC since then. Was
I
right the first time, and it was just a coincidence? Or, does ODBC hit
the
database hard enough to cause noticeable performance issues? We run
Progress
10.1B, and Vista 8.03.403D - No SQL Server.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electric
<http://www.electric <http://www.electricmirror.com> mirror.com>
mirror.com>
From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of Charlie Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

As a former SQL DBA I'm very familiar with MSSQL 2000 and 2005. SQL is
not
as nearly set it and forget it as Progress. We use progress. But I'm not
familiar with your environment. They each have their place.

If I were to go the SQL route I would have a server for SQL and a
separate
server for the application. SQL Servers are massive resource hogs if it
is
free they are going to use it.

The only thing I miss about SQL is the pretty GUI.

The SQL boxes I set up when I was a DBA we measured users in hundreds
and
thousands so my view of what it takes to have a successful SQL box is
skewed.

But for my environment of 40 to 60 concurrent users here there isn't
anything I need progress to do that I can't make it do.

We have about 30 built from the ground up custom Crystal report, most of
which run on ODBC just because we didn't know any better. And of the
canned
epicor reports 50% of those we have hacked and modified to meet our
needs.

As far as mass data manipulation we have Service Connect worth every
penny
we spent on it including the training course. If we were running MSSQL I
would still insist on using SC. Yah I can write you a script to fix the
messed up data in two snaps but I can also write you a SC Flow in the
same
amount of time plus I can guarantee that the data will not get damaged
unlike a SQL Script. I've recovered too many DBs because some developer
wrote a script where they put dob.tablename.column instead of
dbo.tablename.column.

~Charlie

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of
rockquote
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9

Oh come on. Though I've done nothing but SQL for the last few years with
Vantage and Epicor 9 I really liked Progress back in my 6.1 days. It did
circles around SQL Server 2000.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
advantage@... wrote:

>
> Did I hear after 9.1 epicor isn't even delivering with Progress?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:34:32
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
>
> SQL SQL SQL!!!
>
> Working with and managing a Progress database is much like North

Korea's

> government: closed off to the world, antiquated and difficult to
> understand. SQL is Freedom.
>
> My logic is converse to your question. I ask: What reason would I have
> to go with Vantage on a Progress database?
>
> I've had the opportunity to manage both databases. I'm not saying
> Progress is a "bad" database but why go with it?
>
> Finding SQL admin/development experience is tenfold easier than
> Progress. The talent is younger/cheaper.
>
> All that aside, SQL offers incredible flexibility. I've managed to
> circumvent using custom code from Epicor by creating a handful of

clever

> and safe triggers/stored procs on the back end. Back-end data
> management is easier. Bulk database updates are easier. Data forensics
> is easier.
>
> SQL to me is a no-brainer. I have a few colleagues currently on

Vantage

> 8.x and in the midst of a Progress-to-SQL conversion.
>
> BAQ's are nice. They're better than nothing. But imagine the power of
> nested SQL views pumped to Crystal Reports or an ASP web page for your
> company's intranet. You don't need CorVu or and BI software if you're
> on SQL because you and your staff can do it yourself with your current
> software: Crystal Reports, Excel, etc when you have the power and
> freedom of SQL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf

> Of saab_barracuda
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [Vantage] SQL vs. Progress for Epicor 9
>
> I did a search and found a lot of discussion on SQL verses Progress

for

> Vantage 8.0 from a couple years ago but hadn't seen anything lately
> especially with regard to Epicor 9. We are currently discussing
> upgrading to E9 at some point and wanted to see what group thought

about

> SQL database.
>
> We are currently running Vantage 8.00 on Progress. It's been very
> stable and easy to maintain (no tuning required) but a real pain to

deal

> with on reporting. I don't know 4GL very well and needing to have
> exclusive access to the database to create views are the big issues.
>
> Up to this point, I have relied heavily on ODBC Access databases for
> reporting just because they are much faster to produce complex queries
> and I can use VBA to add some intelligence. But using a desktop

program

> for enterprise reporting is a weak solution.
>
> So from this perspective, MSSQL seems like it would be easier to deal
> with. However, I'm afraid it will require more admin to maintain and

we

> don't have a DBA to peak and tweak the database. We need the Ronco

"set

> it and forget it" system. Progress has been maintenance free since it
> was initially setup. Additionally, I am concerned about reducing
> performance. Ver 8 is already much slower performance than Ver 6.1
> (never mind usability issues), and E9 is supposed to be even slower. I
> don't want to add any more overhead with the additional interface with
> SQL.
>
> So given all that, is there anyone that has upgraded Ver 8 on Progress
> to E9 on MSSQL? Or even successfully running Ver 8 on SQL? Any
> performance, admin, or other issues? I'd appreciate any input.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Clunn
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages

> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups. <http://groups.

<http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

We use ODBC almost exclusively with our web server which runs Cold
Fusion.



My experience has shown me that:



1. ODBC is a processor hog. 1 thread will peg up all 4 processor
cores at 25%.
2. The implementation of ODBC provided by Progress doesn't support
anything close to the latest releases of ODBC. Many times I find that
certain features have not been implemented. A good example is the use
of subqueries.
3. The optimizer for Progress when an ODBC request comes in is not
particularly good at building an execution plan. Seemingly simple WHERE
clauses will cause the query performance to nosedive. Let's say we have
million row table. I write a query that uses indexed columns and the
result when I test is 1000 records. If I then add another condition to
the WHERE clause which isn't indexed, my query may suddenly take an
inordinate amount of time or never return. The optimizer should be
smart enough to extract the same 1000 records and then parse out the
subset.



The morale of the story is to be very careful how your queries are
constructed and have a very good understanding of the data dictionary.



John A. Hatcher

Manager of IS

Versa Products Co., Inc.

(201) 518-5948

(201) 843-2400 x4148

(201) 843-2931 (fax)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]