Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues

[system]

Adam Long wrote:

> I have to laugh a little, we just went live. I had 30 days to get it
> done. (2 months total)
>
> Went much more smoothly than I had expected

Maybe you should change your name to Adam Short!

;-)

[system]

Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its intended
purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing the
work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is scheduled
by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.

This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we have
60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.

1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
(and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be the
start time?
3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?

In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before being
logged into the job within Vantage/MES.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Adam

[system]

I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@...> wrote:
>
> Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its intended
> purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
the
> work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
scheduled
> by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
>
> This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we have
> 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
>
> 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
the
> start time?
> 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
>
> In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before being
> logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Adam
>

[system]

You can set a buffer, so if you get everyone in at say 7:20 it will fall
back to 7:00.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Adam Long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:11 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues



I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Adam Long" <xcsdm@...> wrote:

>
> Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its intended
> purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing

the

> work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is

scheduled

> by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
>
> This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we have
> 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
>
> 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be

the

> start time?
> 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
>
> In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before being
> logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Adam
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

You may be able to customize the screen and add a start time entry box.
I don't know if the system would overwrite it on save or not. The other
option is to adjust the hours after clock out in the labor entry screen
within the Production Management Genteral Operations folder


Kersten MacLennan
IT/ERP Analyst
Semrock, Inc.
3625 Buffalo Rd.,
Suite 6
Rochester, NY 14624
585-594-7009
585-594-7095 fax

kmaclennan@...

The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical Instrumentation


Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
extensive inventory now!

The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If you
received this message in error, please reply to the message and delete
it. Thank you




________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Adam Long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues



Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its intended
purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing the
work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is scheduled
by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.

This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we have
60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.

1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
(and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be the
start time?
3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?

In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before being
logged into the job within Vantage/MES.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Adam






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Will this option work if we are not using Vantage/MES as a time-clock?
And does this mean that at the end of the set shift, these employees
are automatically signed out of jobs?

If I understand correctly, I set a 20-30 minute buffer, and it says,
(I assume) Employee X started a job at 7:20, his shift began at
7:00, so he must have started the job at 7:00. ??

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V. Blais" <pblais@...> wrote:
>
> You can set a buffer, so if you get everyone in at say 7:20 it will
fall
> back to 7:00.
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Adam Long
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:11 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
>
>
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
intended
> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
have
> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
being
> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

Yes, we are using it now. No they are not automatically signed out, nor
should they be. Quantities have to be input. Yes you understand that
correctly.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Adam Long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues



Will this option work if we are not using Vantage/MES as a time-clock?
And does this mean that at the end of the set shift, these employees
are automatically signed out of jobs?

If I understand correctly, I set a 20-30 minute buffer, and it says,
(I assume) Employee X started a job at 7:20, his shift began at
7:00, so he must have started the job at 7:00. ??

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Paul V. Blais" <pblais@...> wrote:

>
> You can set a buffer, so if you get everyone in at say 7:20 it will

fall

> back to 7:00.
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Adam Long
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:11 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
>
>
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,

> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best solution to accomplish their goal.

By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a process where the entry people can artificially make certain people or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process improvement).

These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas, would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

Rob Brown

Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@...> wrote:
>
> Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its intended
> purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
the
> work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
scheduled
> by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
>
> This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we have
> 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
>
> 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
the
> start time?
> 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
>
> In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before being
> logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Adam
>






---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

For a very different perspective...

We are implementing 8.03.403 (soon to be .404) and do not intend to
use the job costing as such. We intend to use the MES time and
attendance with all of the time going to indirect activities that
are organized around shop areas.

Then the job selction (mostly cell time work) will be handled by
supervisors and/or lead people. The earned hour labor will be back
flushed and the actual time pooled in the indirect buckets. then we
intend to marry up the cell production verus the indirect bucket at
various points during each shift.

If you don't need the job by job costs, but more of a macro
productivity/cost look this could apply to you as well. We measure
productivity with a metric called "man minutes/unit" in each cell.

We do this now in our current non-epicor system and it works well in
a lean, cellular environment with lots of fast-paced, smaller jobs.

Hope it helps.

Brad Boes
Metalworks




--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating

a process where the entry people can artificially make certain
people or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are
(thwarting any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number

of

> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production

activity

> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would

be

> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

>For a very different perspective...

>We are implementing 8.03.403 (soon to be .404)

How soon?

[system]

I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
using the application side of Labor Entry is.

But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on Vantage
& MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution for
REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.

We split the uses of MES two ways:
Payroll -
We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP interface
solution provided by Epicor.

Production -
Labor Details
1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)

The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
calculations.

Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.

The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the pain
you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log of
manual entries for accurate job costing.

Thanks
Patty Buechler
UV Color


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a

process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just starting to
set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just filled
in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.

Thanks


Kersten MacLennan
IT/ERP Analyst
Semrock, Inc.
3625 Buffalo Rd.,
Suite 6
Rochester, NY 14624
585-594-7009
585-594-7095 fax

kmaclennan@...

The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical Instrumentation


Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
extensive inventory now!

The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If you
received this message in error, please reply to the message and delete
it. Thank you




________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of bpbuechler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues



I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
using the application side of Labor Entry is.

But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on Vantage
& MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution for
REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.

We split the uses of MES two ways:
Payroll -
We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP interface
solution provided by Epicor.

Production -
Labor Details
1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)

The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
calculations.

Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.

The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the pain
you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log of
manual entries for accurate job costing.

Thanks
Patty Buechler
UV Color

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a

process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,

"Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:

> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Assuming you are using Labor Entry or MES for Labor Collection;
Epicor provides an ADP Interface (mod $'s) that is basically a data
dump of LaborHed in a .csv file format. ADP has the ability to then
import from this .csv file creating the base for payroll.

Al other time (vacations, berevement, etc) is then added to the dump
imported from the .csv file.

If you have more questions, I would contact Epicor for specifcs.
Thanks
Patty Buechler



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Kersten MacLennan" <kmaclennan@...>
wrote:

>
> Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just

starting to

> set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just

filled

> in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
> Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan
> IT/ERP Analyst
> Semrock, Inc.
> 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> Suite 6
> Rochester, NY 14624
> 585-594-7009
> 585-594-7095 fax
>
> kmaclennan@...
>
> The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical

Instrumentation

>
>
> Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> extensive inventory now!
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
> privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the

reader

> of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent

responsible

> for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are

hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If

you

> received this message in error, please reply to the message and

delete

> it. Thank you
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of bpbuechler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
>
>
> I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
> using the application side of Labor Entry is.
>
> But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on

Vantage

> & MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution

for

> REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.
>
> We split the uses of MES two ways:
> Payroll -
> We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP

interface

> solution provided by Epicor.
>
> Production -
> Labor Details
> 1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
> Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
> 2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
> 3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)
>
> The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
> earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
> calculations.
>
> Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
> then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
> areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.
>
> The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the

pain

> you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log

of

> manual entries for accurate job costing.
>
> Thanks
> Patty Buechler
> UV Color
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Robert Brown <robertb_versa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by
> insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
> solution to accomplish their goal.
> >
> > By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a
> process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
> or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
> any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
> improvement).
> >
> > These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a
> supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
> behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
> data was used to punish or reward individual performances).
> >
> > If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and
> possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.
> >
> > If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are
> handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work

areas,

> would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?
> >
> > Rob Brown
> >
> > Adam Long <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com> ,

> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
> intended
> > > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> > the
> > > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number

of

> > > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> > scheduled
> > > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> > >
> > > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
> have
> > > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> > >
> > > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production

activity

> > > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would

be

> > the
> > > start time?
> > > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> > >
> > > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
> being
> > > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > Adam
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> Try it now.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

FYI....we found that the Epicor export can not handle anything more than very plain / standard ovetime rules. We have really complicated rules but even anywhere else with an exception or two could run into this limitation.

We could have saved a bunch of money by doing in the first place what we ended up doing...writing our own export to a CSV file. It was not difficult aside from getting the overtime rules straight. We are using the ADP web based system and there is a decent method for imorting the CSV file to their system. Our payroll process went from most of a day to about an hour. Later we added some complexity with the ADP HR module that increased the payroll processing time related to paid time off but this was mostly a shift from one person to another.

Before looking at the Epicor export make sure it really does all that you need.

-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bpbuechler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:35 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues


Assuming you are using Labor Entry or MES for Labor Collection;
Epicor provides an ADP Interface (mod $'s) that is basically a data
dump of LaborHed in a .csv file format. ADP has the ability to then
import from this .csv file creating the base for payroll.

Al other time (vacations, berevement, etc) is then added to the dump
imported from the .csv file.

If you have more questions, I would contact Epicor for specifcs.
Thanks
Patty Buechler

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kersten MacLennan" <kmaclennan@...>
wrote:

>
> Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just

starting to

> set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just

filled

> in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
> Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan
> IT/ERP Analyst
> Semrock, Inc.
> 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> Suite 6
> Rochester, NY 14624
> 585-594-7009
> 585-594-7095 fax
>
> kmaclennan@...
>
> The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical

Instrumentation

>
>
> Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> extensive inventory now!
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
> privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the

reader

> of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent

responsible

> for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are

hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If

you

> received this message in error, please reply to the message and

delete

> it. Thank you
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On

Behalf

> Of bpbuechler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
>
>
> I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
> using the application side of Labor Entry is.
>
> But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on

Vantage

> & MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution

for

> REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.
>
> We split the uses of MES two ways:
> Payroll -
> We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP

interface

> solution provided by Epicor.
>
> Production -
> Labor Details
> 1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
> Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
> 2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
> 3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)
>
> The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
> earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
> calculations.
>
> Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
> then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
> areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.
>
> The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the

pain

> you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log

of

> manual entries for accurate job costing.
>
> Thanks
> Patty Buechler
> UV Color
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Robert Brown <robertb_versa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by
> insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
> solution to accomplish their goal.
> >
> > By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a
> process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
> or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
> any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
> improvement).
> >
> > These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a
> supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
> behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
> data was used to punish or reward individual performances).
> >
> > If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and
> possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.
> >
> > If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are
> handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work

areas,

> would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?
> >
> > Rob Brown
> >
> > Adam Long <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com> ,

> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
> intended
> > > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> > the
> > > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number

of

> > > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> > scheduled
> > > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> > >
> > > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
> have
> > > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> > >
> > > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production

activity

> > > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would

be

> > the
> > > start time?
> > > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> > >
> > > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
> being
> > > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > Adam
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> Try it now.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Thanks. After reading I thought that writing my own Crystal and
exporting it would be just as or more efficient that calling Epicor
in..it would at least be cheaper.


Kersten MacLennan
IT/ERP Analyst
Semrock, Inc.
3625 Buffalo Rd.,
Suite 6
Rochester, NY 14624
585-594-7009
585-594-7095 fax

kmaclennan@...

The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical Instrumentation


Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
extensive inventory now!

The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If you
received this message in error, please reply to the message and delete
it. Thank you




________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:18 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues



FYI....we found that the Epicor export can not handle anything more than
very plain / standard ovetime rules. We have really complicated rules
but even anywhere else with an exception or two could run into this
limitation.

We could have saved a bunch of money by doing in the first place what we
ended up doing...writing our own export to a CSV file. It was not
difficult aside from getting the overtime rules straight. We are using
the ADP web based system and there is a decent method for imorting the
CSV file to their system. Our payroll process went from most of a day to
about an hour. Later we added some complexity with the ADP HR module
that increased the payroll processing time related to paid time off but
this was mostly a shift from one person to another.

Before looking at the Epicor export make sure it really does all that
you need.

-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of bpbuechler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:35 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues

Assuming you are using Labor Entry or MES for Labor Collection;
Epicor provides an ADP Interface (mod $'s) that is basically a data
dump of LaborHed in a .csv file format. ADP has the ability to then
import from this .csv file creating the base for payroll.

Al other time (vacations, berevement, etc) is then added to the dump
imported from the .csv file.

If you have more questions, I would contact Epicor for specifcs.
Thanks
Patty Buechler

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kersten MacLennan" <kmaclennan@...>
wrote:

>
> Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just

starting to

> set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just

filled

> in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
> Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan
> IT/ERP Analyst
> Semrock, Inc.
> 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> Suite 6
> Rochester, NY 14624
> 585-594-7009
> 585-594-7095 fax
>
> kmaclennan@...
>
> The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical

Instrumentation

>
>
> Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> extensive inventory now!
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
> privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the

reader

> of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent

responsible

> for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are

hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If

you

> received this message in error, please reply to the message and

delete

> it. Thank you
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On
Behalf

> Of bpbuechler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
>
>
> I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
> using the application side of Labor Entry is.
>
> But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on

Vantage

> & MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution

for

> REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.
>
> We split the uses of MES two ways:
> Payroll -
> We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP

interface

> solution provided by Epicor.
>
> Production -
> Labor Details
> 1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
> Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
> 2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
> 3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)
>
> The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
> earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
> calculations.
>
> Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
> then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
> areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.
>
> The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the

pain

> you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log

of

> manual entries for accurate job costing.
>
> Thanks
> Patty Buechler
> UV Color
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,

> Robert Brown <robertb_versa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by
> insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
> solution to accomplish their goal.
> >
> > By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a
> process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
> or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
> any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
> improvement).
> >
> > These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a
> supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
> behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
> data was used to punish or reward individual performances).
> >
> > If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and
> possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.
> >
> > If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are
> handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work

areas,

> would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?
> >
> > Rob Brown
> >
> > Adam Long <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ,

> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
> intended
> > > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> > the
> > > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number

of

> > > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> > scheduled
> > > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> > >
> > > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
> have
> > > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> > >
> > > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production

activity

> > > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would

be

> > the
> > > start time?
> > > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> > >
> > > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
> being
> > > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > Adam
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> Try it now.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Good point Todd. I forgot to mention OT Hours Calculation
exceptions.

I will also add (if you have straight forward OT calculations)
another limitation is it will only allow up to 3 columns of hours
(REG, OT, and Column #3). Column #3 is whatever you define. We use
it to add 8 hrs for Holiday. Our Payroll person still has a little
massaging for employees that were not eligible for the holiday time,
but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Thanks
Patty Buechler
UV Color
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Kersten MacLennan" <kmaclennan@...>
wrote:

>
> Thanks. After reading I thought that writing my own Crystal and
> exporting it would be just as or more efficient that calling Epicor
> in..it would at least be cheaper.
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan
> IT/ERP Analyst
> Semrock, Inc.
> 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> Suite 6
> Rochester, NY 14624
> 585-594-7009
> 585-594-7095 fax
>
> kmaclennan@...
>
> The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical

Instrumentation

>
>
> Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> extensive inventory now!
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
> privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the

reader

> of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent

responsible

> for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are

hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If

you

> received this message in error, please reply to the message and

delete

> it. Thank you
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:18 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting

issues

>
>
>
> FYI....we found that the Epicor export can not handle anything more

than

> very plain / standard ovetime rules. We have really complicated

rules

> but even anywhere else with an exception or two could run into this
> limitation.
>
> We could have saved a bunch of money by doing in the first place

what we

> ended up doing...writing our own export to a CSV file. It was not
> difficult aside from getting the overtime rules straight. We are

using

> the ADP web based system and there is a decent method for imorting

the

> CSV file to their system. Our payroll process went from most of a

day to

> about an hour. Later we added some complexity with the ADP HR module
> that increased the payroll processing time related to paid time off

but

> this was mostly a shift from one person to another.
>
> Before looking at the Epicor export make sure it really does all

that

> you need.
>
> -Todd C.
>
> ________________________________
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf Of bpbuechler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:35 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
> Assuming you are using Labor Entry or MES for Labor Collection;
> Epicor provides an ADP Interface (mod $'s) that is basically a data
> dump of LaborHed in a .csv file format. ADP has the ability to then
> import from this .csv file creating the base for payroll.
>
> Al other time (vacations, berevement, etc) is then added to the dump
> imported from the .csv file.
>
> If you have more questions, I would contact Epicor for specifcs.
> Thanks
> Patty Buechler
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kersten MacLennan"

<kmaclennan@>

> wrote:
> >
> > Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just
> starting to
> > set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just
> filled
> > in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
> > Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Kersten MacLennan
> > IT/ERP Analyst
> > Semrock, Inc.
> > 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> > Suite 6
> > Rochester, NY 14624
> > 585-594-7009
> > 585-594-7095 fax
> >
> > kmaclennan@
> >
> > The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical
> Instrumentation
> >
> >
> > Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> > extensive inventory now!
> >
> > The information contained in this message and any attachments may

be

> > privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the
> reader
> > of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent
> responsible
> > for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> > communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited.

If

> you
> > received this message in error, please reply to the message and
> delete
> > it. Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com>]

> On
> Behalf
> > Of bpbuechler
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
> >
> >
> >
> > I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
> > using the application side of Labor Entry is.
> >
> > But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on
> Vantage
> > & MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution
> for
> > REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.
> >
> > We split the uses of MES two ways:
> > Payroll -
> > We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP
> interface
> > solution provided by Epicor.
> >
> > Production -
> > Labor Details
> > 1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
> > Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
> > 2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
> > 3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)
> >
> > The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
> > earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
> > calculations.
> >
> > Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
> > then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in

key

> > areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe

hardware.

> >
> > The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the
> pain
> > you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log
> of
> > manual entries for accurate job costing.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Patty Buechler
> > UV Color
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com> ,

> > Robert Brown <robertb_versa@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by
> > insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
> > solution to accomplish their goal.
> > >
> > > By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating

a

> > process where the entry people can artificially make certain

people

> > or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are

(thwarting

> > any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
> > improvement).
> > >
> > > These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a
> > supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
> > behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
> > data was used to punish or reward individual performances).
> > >
> > > If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and
> > possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.
> > >
> > > If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are
> > handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work
> areas,
> > would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?
> > >
> > > Rob Brown
> > >
> > > Adam Long <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > > I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
> > intended
> > > > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop

employee "doing

> > > the
> > > > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number
> of
> > > > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> > > scheduled
> > > > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > > > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> > > >
> > > > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
> > have
> > > > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > > > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > > > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production
> activity
> > > > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would
> be
> > > the
> > > > start time?
> > > > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> > > >
> > > > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
> > being
> > > > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
> Mobile.
> > Try it now.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

either
1. get handhelds as Adam mentioned below
2. get more computers
3. use a different solution
4. customize the screen as you said - you can indeed add those fields
to it.. see my comments below.

> 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?

not without a customization - you need to use the labor entry screen
otherwise not accessible via mes.

> 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity

(and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
the start time?

You could possibly get away with defining a new BPM method directive
that says "if date01 is not null then set start time = date01" ..
something along those lines. I think you need to actually say "if
date01 does not equal date09" as a way to check for a null value
(assuming you aren't using date09). Although I recall the start time
isn't a date, you may need to adjust the fields clockinminute and
clockintime which are not date fields so you may have to parse out
these values from your time textbox and just set the number01 and
number02 fields in the BAQ.

> 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?

you can definitely alter labor times via a customization, we did it
writing a utility that clocks out users who forget to clockout of
jobs at night. actually another hack you can do is just drop a
custom field on the screen for start time, and a utility runs at
night to adjust all labor transactions to have a start time of that
custom field.. but then you may as well do step 2 above.





--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a

process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[system]

Got it. Pretty interesting (& creative) approach.

We are still implementing (403D) also (not likely live for a few more months).

We have 2 distinct production areas:

A very short cycle time/unit Assemble to order area (which generates the product fulfilling customer orders) and is being migrated/reconfigured using lean principles.

A full machine shop the produces strategically best-produced-inhouse components (and acts as a backup to our world wide vendor sources).

The machine shop is a mix:

CNC equipment (setups 1-6 hrs - typically about 2 hrs, and lot runs from 3 pc to thousands -average OP taking about 3 days to complete the scheduled lot qty).

Manual equipment (drill heads, tappers, a few old bridgeports, deburring, semi-automated (press) assembly and stamping, and a paint process. These are all minimal set up very short cycle time OPs (with the exception of paint which has some inherent drying time).

Like you, we intend to backflush all our assembly labor to the multi OP standards - only requiring a last OP qty complete report via scanners and MES to handle the 175-200 jobs processed daily with minimal non value added reporting time overhead.

Our manual equipment shop areas all are planned to be qty reporting only (resulting in cost based upon the OP standards). (Manual MES initially but I suspect scanners will be added to improve entry acccuracy.)

CNCs, we intend to track by time & qty reporting (in the hope the traditional data will enable us to ID opportunities for process improvement via training and/or tooling/programming optimizations).

Unfortunately (from my perspective), we aren't going to be using MES for time/attendance as we have a 3rd party hand scanner/ADP process accounting is happy with (but will limit what we can glean from job activity reporting).

Your (?or 'management's?) idea of time/attendance use for indirect activities is pretty neat for a fast paced, cell environment.

I would think scanners could make it rock solid (better accuracy) and more likely to reflect 'real time' as a result of it being faster & easier (once all are trained to use it).

"Man minutes/part" is great if the cells aren't excessively mixed model flow (with potentially quite disparate total unit labor times produced in the cell - even though you may have balanced all operations for a steady output rate from the cell).

My desire (in our assembly area) is to have daily/weekly/monthly measures available on demand to measure sales $ value assembled to actual labor incurred over the selected period (as it is the only true profit center with value added activity). The decision to not use MES time/attendance complicates that goal tremendously (as it has also done our our legacy system) - but perhaps we can get our attendance scanners (and the db/apps they are driven by) to talk to vantage.

We have just started converting our manual machine shop areas to kanban cells versus the current 'traditional' OPs on complex mulit-op jobs. Once we reach a critical mass of change over success, I think your "man minutes/part" measure would be quite applicable to us.

Thanks for the additional info. It really helps to hear how others are (or intend to) use MES as it seems it is a rare subject (and epicor consultants tend to skim through it instead of offering ideas of how others have used it for real advantage to ID waste and improve producivity, increase effective capacity and throughput, etc.,). Your intended use to use MES time/attendance in conjunction with non-value added activities is really intriguing - as that IS the very fat in the processes that needs focus in order to reduce/eliminate it.

I'd really do some investigation on whether scanners would be a quick ROI for you. Properly set up, they can really enable individuals (and teams) to take more responsibility for their work. Giving them access to your process measures (perhaps suitably tweaked to match the audience more effectively) - can really lead to people/teams taking very active self responsibility for maintaining standards (and ecourage the sharing of their ideas for continuous improvement).

Rob Brown



brad_boes <bboes@...> wrote:
For a very different perspective...

We are implementing 8.03.403 (soon to be .404) and do not intend to
use the job costing as such. We intend to use the MES time and
attendance with all of the time going to indirect activities that
are organized around shop areas.

Then the job selction (mostly cell time work) will be handled by
supervisors and/or lead people. The earned hour labor will be back
flushed and the actual time pooled in the indirect buckets. then we
intend to marry up the cell production verus the indirect bucket at
various points during each shift.

If you don't need the job by job costs, but more of a macro
productivity/cost look this could apply to you as well. We measure
productivity with a metric called "man minutes/unit" in each cell.

We do this now in our current non-epicor system and it works well in
a lean, cellular environment with lots of fast-paced, smaller jobs.

Hope it helps.

Brad Boes
Metalworks

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating

a process where the entry people can artificially make certain
people or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are
(thwarting any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number

of

> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production

activity

> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would

be

> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

I would also be interested in details of anyone's succesful interface with ADP and/or successfully interfacing with non Vantage (legacy) time/attendance hardware/software.
Rob Brown


Kersten MacLennan <kmaclennan@...> wrote:
Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are just starting to
set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just filled
in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.

Thanks


Kersten MacLennan
IT/ERP Analyst
Semrock, Inc.
3625 Buffalo Rd.,
Suite 6
Rochester, NY 14624
585-594-7009
585-594-7095 fax

kmaclennan@...

The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical Instrumentation

Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
extensive inventory now!

The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If you
received this message in error, please reply to the message and delete
it. Thank you

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of bpbuechler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues

I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
using the application side of Labor Entry is.

But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on Vantage
& MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution for
REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.

We split the uses of MES two ways:
Payroll -
We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP interface
solution provided by Epicor.

Production -
Labor Details
1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)

The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
calculations.

Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.

The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the pain
you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log of
manual entries for accurate job costing.

Thanks
Patty Buechler
UV Color

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:

>
> Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by

insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
solution to accomplish their goal.

>
> By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a

process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
improvement).

>
> These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a

supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
data was used to punish or reward individual performances).

>
> If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and

possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.

>
> If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are

handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?

>
> Rob Brown
>
> Adam Long <xcsdm@...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,

"Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:

> >
> > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its

intended

> > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> the
> > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> scheduled
> > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> >
> > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we

have

> > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> >
> > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> the
> > start time?
> > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> >
> > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before

being

> > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> >
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Adam
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.

Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Well....our ADP-interface HAS been a *very* long process, but I think
we finally have it worked out. We are on 8.03.305K, running on
SQL2005. We first tried the 'ADP-interface', & found it lacking in
error-checking and error-recovery procedures. After a few months of
tinkering, & working with Epicor's latest group of custom programmers
in Mexico, we abandoned that effort & traded-in the ADP-Module for the
regular Epicor Payroll module. THAT gave us a more robust environment
to do data-entry with, but we still wanted to use ADP for all our
Payroll processing and Tax management for Payroll...no desire *at all*
to bring those two back in-house and print our own checks. I, next,
embarked on a plan to use a BAQ to extract the Payroll-check data to
an Excel template, then used the programmable nature of our
EDI-translator (Gentran) to convert the multi-record output of the BAQ
into the single-line data string required by ADP's 'PC-Payroll'
program running on another of our servers. (the 'mapping' in Gentran
was somewhat trivial, compared to other EDI maps that we have,
actually) After quite a bit of what-if scenario testing, I think we're
finally ready to go live with this. We use our MES stations to clock
in/out for our hourly personnel, feed that data to the Payroll module,
run the BAQ (and its associated dashboard that I built), extract to
Excel .csv-file, drop that .csv-file into a folder on our Gentran
server, Gentran automatically imports it, translates it, & deposits
the result in a different folder on the Gentran server. Our Payroll
Clerk grabs that file & posts it to PC-Payroll. So far, so good. If
no additional changes are found to be needed, I think we're going live
with it in March.

Epicor also gave us a proposal to do the above with custom Progress
coding. Since we already HAD the EDI system, & it was capable, this
gives us more control at a lower cost, & even though it seems to be a
lot of steps, we can automate all of them now as we see fit. Overall,
an adequate solution for us.

Hope that helps a little......Gary

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...> wrote:
>
> I would also be interested in details of anyone's succesful
interface with ADP and/or successfully interfacing with non Vantage
(legacy) time/attendance hardware/software.
> Rob Brown
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan <kmaclennan@...> wrote:
> Could you tell me more about your ADP interface? We are
just starting to
> set up a formal Payroll system (in the past our associates just filled
> in fields in an Excel spreadsheet and were on the honor system).
> Whatever information you can offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Kersten MacLennan
> IT/ERP Analyst
> Semrock, Inc.
> 3625 Buffalo Rd.,
> Suite 6
> Rochester, NY 14624
> 585-594-7009
> 585-594-7095 fax
>
> kmaclennan@...
>
> The Standard in Optical Filters for Biotech & Analytical Instrumentation
>
> Hundreds of Thousands of Ion Beam Sputtered filters delivered -
> extensive inventory now!
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments may be
> privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If the reader
> of this message is not the intended recipient, or any agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication may be unlawful and therefore strictly prohibited. If you
> received this message in error, please reply to the message and delete
> it. Thank you
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of bpbuechler
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Shop Employee / MES Time accounting issues
>
> I 100% agree with Rob Brown. Maybe MES is not your solution and
> using the application side of Labor Entry is.
>
> But I will tell you coming from being almost 3 years live on Vantage
> & MES with 365 active shop employees, MES is an awesome solution for
> REALTIME Labor for Payroll and Production reporting.
>
> We split the uses of MES two ways:
> Payroll -
> We do not use the Payroll module in Vantage but have an ADP interface
> solution provided by Epicor.
>
> Production -
> Labor Details
> 1. Direct Labor(Setup, Production, Rework) = Job Costing for
> Labor/Burden & WIP Qty Reporting
> 2. Indirect = Productivity measurements
> 3. Inventory = Issue/Return, Scrap & NC Entry (quality)
>
> The only caveat is only those who report WIP quantities are given
> earned hours which is a huge factor of Employee Efficiency
> calculations.
>
> Honestly, if it is a matter of people standing around to clock in,
> then I would invest in a soltuion of additional workstations in key
> areas of the floor or invest in some kind of a scan/swipe hardware.
>
> The dollars invested in that solution is way more worth then the pain
> you will experience in manual time clock keeping along with a log of
> manual entries for accurate job costing.
>
> Thanks
> Patty Buechler
> UV Color
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Robert Brown <robertb_versa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just what is it that 'management' is trying to accomplish by
> insisting on MES being used like this? (Maybe MES isn't the best
> solution to accomplish their goal.
> >
> > By having a few people do non-real time entry, you are creating a
> process where the entry people can artificially make certain people
> or processes LOOK better or worse than they actually are (thwarting
> any attempt to use MES entered activity data for process
> improvement).
> >
> > These entry biases can be unintentional (based upon a
> supervisor/entry-person's assumption of someone else's typical
> behavior) and intentional (creating potential legal issues if the
> data was used to punish or reward individual performances).
> >
> > If you are using actual costing, the biases impact the G/L and
> possibly inventory asset valuations subject to tax.
> >
> > If MES is the best path for fulfilling management's need, are
> handhelds with scanners (which, if set up at appropriate work areas,
> would allow real time, accurate entry) a viable option?
> >
> > Rob Brown
> >
> > Adam Long <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > I forgot to mention, we are running Vantage 8.03.403D
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Adam Long" <xcsdm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Per management decision, we are running MES outside of its
> intended
> > > purpose. MES is designed to be used by the shop employee "doing
> > the
> > > work". Our physical layout of our shop floor limits the number of
> > > computers available for employees. Since our jobs/work is
> > scheduled
> > > by the supervisors anyway, we decided that the supervisors are
> > > responsible for signing their people into and out of jobs.
> > >
> > > This presents an issue for us. First thing in the morning, we
> have
> > > 60 people standing around waiting for work. We are looking for
> > > suggestions to more accurately enter start times on jobs.
> > >
> > > 1. Is it possible to edit the start time of a job (From MES) ?
> > > 2. Is it possible to add a field to the start production activity
> > > (and most likely all "start activity" dialog boxes) that would be
> > the
> > > start time?
> > > 3. Any ideas to get a more accurate time/cost per job?
> > >
> > > In many cases shop workers can be on a job for an hour before
> being
> > > logged into the job within Vantage/MES.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > Adam
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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