Record labor without an operation?

Yahoo Archive
1
Hi Chris,

Everything below makes sense, when we need to we allready create
a 'part on the fly' when one does not yet exist.

I like the idea of projects but I'm now not sure they'll give me what
I need, in that costs are not genuinely rolled up. What I mean is
that I may have various jobs assigned to a WBS phase, however, any
costs associated with a WBS phase job do not roll up to the parent
job of the project for billing purposes.

e.g. the project has a 'Project Job Detail/Parent Job' making a
specific part that has a BOM/MOM created, I also have a WBS phase
with an associated job that has say the equivelant of $5,000 worth of
labor entered against it. Now I think I'm right in that this $5,000
worth of labor is never flushed to or associated with the 'Project
Job Detail/Parent Job' in any way ?, once all of the jobs have been
completed in the project the part I'm manufacturing in the 'Project
Job Detail/Parent Job' will have $0/zero labor costs against it if I
look at the part costs in the Part Tracker ?.

Thanks.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "chrisb53029" <chris.berger@...>
wrote:
>
> Now, this could get fun having an accountant pipe in on the
> conversation of jobs.
>
> However, I think there might be a couple creative ways to
accomplish
> this. The first one that comes to mind is if you use the project
> management module, you can tie various jobs under the project for
the
> customer, and the jobs can be separate. You would open a job for a
> part called CAD Design attach it to the project with one or as many
> operations on that CAD job (multiple operations if you desire to
> capture the type of work performed by the CAD department...i.e. CAD
> prep, CAD Design, CAD Review, etc...). Another way could be
through
> the field service module AND through projects. Open a service call
> and job for CAD design, it would be tied to the customer project.
> (I'm leaning toward the Project module since you indicated it would
> be months or even years to complete the cutomer order...that
implies
> to me there might be a whole host of other costs / jobs / services
> that are incurred for that customer order that you may want to
> capture under one umbrella...called Project)
>
> Aside from the Project module....even though you don't have a Part
> master set up, Vantage does allow you to free-form a part
number...in
> other words input a part number (on a job or on a sales order) that
> is not in the Part Master. Simply assign the number (but this may
> mean some off line tracking to make sure numbers are not double
> used.) Then after design and specifications are available, you
then
> set up the Part number in the master table and add your MOM. The
> system allows you to use this free form part number on a sales
order
> which you then will see on the planning work bench, which you can
> then open a job (of course there are no details to get) but you can
> add a CAD operation manually on the job. Later when the part is
> designed and a MOM is configured, you can append the Details into
the
> existing job.
>
> Anticipating you might say that you don't have a sales order at
that
> time...you can still open a new job (not from a sales order and not
> through the planners workbench), input the free form number, add
the
> CAD operation. It's just later, you would have to make sure when
the
> sales order is entered you maintain all of the links through Job
> Manager and Job Entry (i.e. tie the existing job back to the sales
> order, change the Demand link from Stock to Order, etc...)
>
> One of these ways should work, but it might be a little maintenance
> effort.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "clive.1972" <clive.1972@> wrote:
> >
> > I think I already know the answer to this but is there any way
> possible
> > of entering/recording labor in Vantage without a job having an
> > operation ?.
> >
> > We need to record our CAD/Design work against a job, obviously
this
> > cannot be done until the job has a part against it and there's at
> least
> > one operation on the job. What we intend to do is have our
> CAD/Design
> > guys record their time in an Excel spreadsheet, and then once the
> job
> > has an operation enter all time from the spreadsheet against
this.
> We
> > can't see any way of doing this without having to manualy record
> the
> > time outside of Vantage for a short while.
> >
> > I'm aware of various time recording software out there that I can
> > install on their workstations but that's still outside of Vantage.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>
2
I think I already know the answer to this but is there any way possible
of entering/recording labor in Vantage without a job having an
operation ?.

We need to record our CAD/Design work against a job, obviously this
cannot be done until the job has a part against it and there's at least
one operation on the job. What we intend to do is have our CAD/Design
guys record their time in an Excel spreadsheet, and then once the job
has an operation enter all time from the spreadsheet against this. We
can't see any way of doing this without having to manualy record the
time outside of Vantage for a short while.

I'm aware of various time recording software out there that I can
install on their workstations but that's still outside of Vantage.

Thanks.
3
Yes, you must have an Operation. Why not add a CAD Operation and have
your Designer/Drafters clock in? No dual entry of data and accurate.
Whether or not you want cost to accrue is a matter of how you set up
the Operation/Resource Group/Resource.

Pat

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "clive.1972" <clive.1972@...> wrote:
>
> I think I already know the answer to this but is there any way possible
> of entering/recording labor in Vantage without a job having an
> operation ?.
>
> We need to record our CAD/Design work against a job, obviously this
> cannot be done until the job has a part against it and there's at least
> one operation on the job. What we intend to do is have our CAD/Design
> guys record their time in an Excel spreadsheet, and then once the job
> has an operation enter all time from the spreadsheet against this. We
> can't see any way of doing this without having to manualy record the
> time outside of Vantage for a short while.
>
> I'm aware of various time recording software out there that I can
> install on their workstations but that's still outside of Vantage.
>
> Thanks.
>
4
It sounds simple but for us it's not that easy.

Once we've received an order from a customer it can be many months
(even a year) before we're at the point where we have a part/BOM that
can be added to a job so that we can have an operation to record labor
against.

We just can't work out a procedure to enable us to record the labor in
Vantage before the above has been completed.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "patgarf" <patgarf@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you must have an Operation. Why not add a CAD Operation and have
> your Designer/Drafters clock in? No dual entry of data and accurate.
> Whether or not you want cost to accrue is a matter of how you set up
> the Operation/Resource Group/Resource.
>
> Pat
>
5
You can record Indirect Labor with out a job, I think. It would be
Indirect Activity. You would have to play with it to see if it needs a
job or not...it's been a while since I was with a company that did this.



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of clive.1972
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Record labor without an operation ?



It sounds simple but for us it's not that easy.

Once we've received an order from a customer it can be many months
(even a year) before we're at the point where we have a part/BOM that
can be added to a job so that we can have an operation to record labor
against.

We just can't work out a procedure to enable us to record the labor in
Vantage before the above has been completed.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"patgarf" <patgarf@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you must have an Operation. Why not add a CAD Operation and have
> your Designer/Drafters clock in? No dual entry of data and accurate.
> Whether or not you want cost to accrue is a matter of how you set up
> the Operation/Resource Group/Resource.
>
> Pat
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
If you have the order and enter a sales order why not go ahead an issue
a job for that part with an engineering only operation? You can have
them record the labor and then once the actual BOM is ready you can
decide if you want to update the existing job that has the engineering
hours or create a new job to actually produce parts on.

Jim

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of clive.1972
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Record labor without an operation ?



It sounds simple but for us it's not that easy.

Once we've received an order from a customer it can be many months
(even a year) before we're at the point where we have a part/BOM that
can be added to a job so that we can have an operation to record labor
against.

We just can't work out a procedure to enable us to record the labor in
Vantage before the above has been completed.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"patgarf" <patgarf@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you must have an Operation. Why not add a CAD Operation and have
> your Designer/Drafters clock in? No dual entry of data and accurate.
> Whether or not you want cost to accrue is a matter of how you set up
> the Operation/Resource Group/Resource.
>
> Pat
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
You're correct there, but the Indirect Labor just gets lost, I see no
way of linking it to a job at a later date once I've valid operation to
record it against ?.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Manasa Reddy" <manasa@...> wrote:
>
> You can record Indirect Labor with out a job, I think. It would be
> Indirect Activity. You would have to play with it to see if it needs
a
> job or not...it's been a while since I was with a company that did
this.
>
>
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> manasa@...
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
8
Then you should just create the job, put the CAD op on it, and then
append the details of the new BOM. That way you have everything on one
job.


M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of clive.1972
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Record labor without an operation ?



You're correct there, but the Indirect Labor just gets lost, I see no
way of linking it to a job at a later date once I've valid operation to
record it against ?.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Manasa Reddy" <manasa@...> wrote:
>
> You can record Indirect Labor with out a job, I think. It would be
> Indirect Activity. You would have to play with it to see if it needs
a
> job or not...it's been a while since I was with a company that did
this.
>
>
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> manasa@...
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
> You're correct there, but the Indirect Labor just gets lost, I see no
> way of linking it to a job at a later date once I've valid operation to
> record it against ?.

Do you have the Projects module?

Mark W.
10
I believe so, we've got allmost everything even though we only use a
fraction of Vantage's potential.

Under 'Production Management -> Job Management' we have Project Entry
so I presume this is it ? (we don't use any project management or
scheduling in Vantage).

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wonsil" <mark_wonsil@...> wrote:
>
> > You're correct there, but the Indirect Labor just gets lost, I see
no
> > way of linking it to a job at a later date once I've valid
operation to
> > record it against ?.
>
> Do you have the Projects module?
>
> Mark W.
>
11
I am not sure if this will help at all for your situation but we created a part number called general service and when someone gets called out after hours we have them pull a job number using that part number. It creates a make to stock demand but they are able to stick an operation on it to record time. I follow it up after the fact with the sales order and link it to my job deleting the make to stock demand. I am also able to change the part number on the job if it needs to be something other than the general service part number used.

You could create a part number called Engineering and create an operation for make drawings or something like that and have them pull a job number. When you get your actual part created you would go back into your job and delete the stock demand and then pull in the new part number to your job. You can then link it to your sales order with that same part number using job manager or actually adding the make to order demand from job entry.




Stacey Zills -
Order Entry/Systems Associate
smzills@...
A&A Machine & Fabrication, LLC
Direct (409)933-3704
Main (409) 938-4274
Fax (409) 938-3925



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
Now, this could get fun having an accountant pipe in on the
conversation of jobs.

However, I think there might be a couple creative ways to accomplish
this. The first one that comes to mind is if you use the project
management module, you can tie various jobs under the project for the
customer, and the jobs can be separate. You would open a job for a
part called CAD Design attach it to the project with one or as many
operations on that CAD job (multiple operations if you desire to
capture the type of work performed by the CAD department...i.e. CAD
prep, CAD Design, CAD Review, etc...). Another way could be through
the field service module AND through projects. Open a service call
and job for CAD design, it would be tied to the customer project.
(I'm leaning toward the Project module since you indicated it would
be months or even years to complete the cutomer order...that implies
to me there might be a whole host of other costs / jobs / services
that are incurred for that customer order that you may want to
capture under one umbrella...called Project)

Aside from the Project module....even though you don't have a Part
master set up, Vantage does allow you to free-form a part number...in
other words input a part number (on a job or on a sales order) that
is not in the Part Master. Simply assign the number (but this may
mean some off line tracking to make sure numbers are not double
used.) Then after design and specifications are available, you then
set up the Part number in the master table and add your MOM. The
system allows you to use this free form part number on a sales order
which you then will see on the planning work bench, which you can
then open a job (of course there are no details to get) but you can
add a CAD operation manually on the job. Later when the part is
designed and a MOM is configured, you can append the Details into the
existing job.

Anticipating you might say that you don't have a sales order at that
time...you can still open a new job (not from a sales order and not
through the planners workbench), input the free form number, add the
CAD operation. It's just later, you would have to make sure when the
sales order is entered you maintain all of the links through Job
Manager and Job Entry (i.e. tie the existing job back to the sales
order, change the Demand link from Stock to Order, etc...)

One of these ways should work, but it might be a little maintenance
effort.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "clive.1972" <clive.1972@...> wrote:
>
> I think I already know the answer to this but is there any way
possible
> of entering/recording labor in Vantage without a job having an
> operation ?.
>
> We need to record our CAD/Design work against a job, obviously this
> cannot be done until the job has a part against it and there's at
least
> one operation on the job. What we intend to do is have our
CAD/Design
> guys record their time in an Excel spreadsheet, and then once the
job
> has an operation enter all time from the spreadsheet against this.
We
> can't see any way of doing this without having to manualy record
the
> time outside of Vantage for a short while.
>
> I'm aware of various time recording software out there that I can
> install on their workstations but that's still outside of Vantage.
>
> Thanks.
>
13
Have you looked at the project functionality inside vantage?
I have not worked with it, but I remember reading a little about it.
It does not seem to have a way to time clock the steps, but there is task management, budget, and the input of costs. Then, you can link jobs to the project (once your drawings are complete and you can create a job) and even milestones, which would allow you to set up billing dates, or whatever, as a part of the process.

Now, it has been a long time since I have worked with Microsoft project, but perhaps some published methodology about labor reporting into project could be applied to vantage, or since vantage will import/export ms project data, perhaps you could use project to do the pre-job capture you are looking for, import it into vantage, and then proceed as normal.
Carey



To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: patgarf@...: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:32:17 +0000Subject: [Vantage] Re: Record labor without an operation ?



Yes, you must have an Operation. Why not add a CAD Operation and haveyour Designer/Drafters clock in? No dual entry of data and accurate.Whether or not you want cost to accrue is a matter of how you set upthe Operation/Resource Group/Resource.Pat --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "clive.1972" <clive.1972@...> wrote:>> I think I already know the answer to this but is there any way possible > of entering/recording labor in Vantage without a job having an > operation ?.> > We need to record our CAD/Design work against a job, obviously this > cannot be done until the job has a part against it and there's at least > one operation on the job. What we intend to do is have our CAD/Design > guys record their time in an Excel spreadsheet, and then once the job > has an operation enter all time from the spreadsheet against this. We > can't see any way of doing this without having to manualy record the > time outside of Vantage for a short while.> > I'm aware of various time recording software out there that I can > install on their workstations but that's still outside of Vantage.> > Thanks.>





_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14
Hi Clive,

> I believe so, we've got allmost everything even though we only use a
> fraction of Vantage's potential.
>
> Under 'Production Management -> Job Management' we have Project Entry
> so I presume this is it ? (we don't use any project management or
> scheduling in Vantage).

The Projects modules is one of those that you can get too carried away with.
At its simplest, it gathers costs. If you start a project, add four or five
high level tasks, then you can track the overall cost of the project. When
you open a Job or a PO, you specify the project task and the costs will roll
up into the project. For long running cycles such as yours, it may be worth
looking into.

Mark W.
15
Hi Mark,

I'm starting to warm to project entry, but from what I've looked at
the rolling up of the costs is sort of 'virtual' ?.

What I mean is that you can have these other jobs in a project but
their real costs are not rolled up into a single entity/job that you
can then bill to a customer ?. The rolled up costs you see in a
project are just an summary of each individual component/job of the
overall project ?.

Thanks.

Clive.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wonsil" <mark_wonsil@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Clive,
>
> > I believe so, we've got allmost everything even though we only
use a
> > fraction of Vantage's potential.
> >
> > Under 'Production Management -> Job Management' we have Project
Entry
> > so I presume this is it ? (we don't use any project management or
> > scheduling in Vantage).
>
> The Projects modules is one of those that you can get too carried
away with.
> At its simplest, it gathers costs. If you start a project, add four
or five
> high level tasks, then you can track the overall cost of the
project. When
> you open a Job or a PO, you specify the project task and the costs
will roll
> up into the project. For long running cycles such as yours, it may
be worth
> looking into.
>
> Mark W.
>