Plans to Drop Epicor

Yahoo Archive
1
Thanks much...I appreciate it very much. I will try that.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Only on your BAQ's, however.
>
> When I prefer to see "NO RESULTS" in the preview window, I'll
write the
> BAQ with the Company table as the first table and outer join the
tables
> I really want.
>
> Say for instance you wanted to create a simple PO report BAQ.
>
> Company table is first. Then add POHeader; outer join.
>
> Choose a few fields to display from POHeader. Put Company.Company
in
> there, too.
>
> Now analyze/test it and you'll see all your PO's.
>
> Now, in Phrase Builder (for this test) put a filter on POHeader
where
> PONum = 999999999 or something crazy you know doesn't exist.
>
> Now re-test the BAQ. Company will still be displayed and you will
have
> one record as a result. The fields you chose from POHeader are
null now
> because of the filter we set above on the PONum.
>
> I then set up something in Crystal Reports to where if PONum is
NULL,
> then suppress the Detail band and display this message "NO
RESULTS".
>
> It's not the greatest way to do this and it should be easier or
> standard. But we have to always come up with ways to "fix" the
system.
> :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> My question to the group is, has any of you found a solution to
get
> crystal or vista to pop up something to tell you nothing is coming?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
2
Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?
3
We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and simplier) also MUCH cheaper.


Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@...> wrote:
Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
If you don't mind sharing, what are the issues you're having with Epicor
that are making you considering dropping them?



Joe Rojas

Information Technology Manager

Symmetry Medical New Bedford

P: 508.998.4575

C:508.838.4717

F:508.995.9597

joe.rojas@... <mailto:joe.rojas@...>



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Michael McWilliams
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Good Morning Michael,



Please pass along our sympathies to your team for your frustrations with
Epicor. Our experience, and indeed our entire reason for existence as a
going concern, has been predicated upon the almost singularly telling
dissatisfaction with the manner in which Epicor sells and supports its
product. Time and again we have found that inadequate consideration to the
consequences of implementing the product have resulted in horrific user
responses and often wholesale rejection of the software. Should your
management team decide to abandon their investment in Vantage due to their
dissatisfaction with Epicor, it would not be without a completely
justifiable cause. We would like to offer, therefore, an alternative
course that would be far less invasive to your production than a wholesale
change of product. If you and your management would like to discuss your
issues with our senior staff, pro bono, please feel free to contact us and
we will be more than happy to assess your company's status with Vantage
and/or Epicor.



Best Regards,



Michael



Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
<http://www.aspacia.com/> http://www.aspacia.com/

This email, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the
addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify me by
telephone and permanently delete the original and any copy of any email and
any printout thereof.


From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael McWilliams
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
Members of the Group,



This was intended as a private message and is not intended as a violation of
the group policies. I wholeheartedly throw myself on the mercy of the
judgment of the group's better interests and fully expect that the group's
mistress moderator will take the appropriate punitive step to deal with my
woefully under caffeinated reply. If it is any consolation, the boss of the
realm and already removed the capital "v" from my keyboard..



Mea Culpa's Abound.



Michael







From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Barry
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:41 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



Good Morning Michael,

Please pass along our sympathies to your team for your frustrations with
Epicor. Our experience, and indeed our entire reason for existence as a
going concern, has been predicated upon the almost singularly telling
dissatisfaction with the manner in which Epicor sells and supports its
product. Time and again we have found that inadequate consideration to the
consequences of implementing the product have resulted in horrific user
responses and often wholesale rejection of the software. Should your
management team decide to abandon their investment in Vantage due to their
dissatisfaction with Epicor, it would not be without a completely
justifiable cause. We would like to offer, therefore, an alternative
course that would be far less invasive to your production than a wholesale
change of product. If you and your management would like to discuss your
issues with our senior staff, pro bono, please feel free to contact us and
we will be more than happy to assess your company's status with Vantage
and/or Epicor.

Best Regards,

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
<http://www.aspacia.com/> http://www.aspacia.com/

This email, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the
addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify me by
telephone and permanently delete the original and any copy of any email and
any printout thereof.


From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Michael McWilliams
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor

Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
We are having all the issues that many have mentioned on this list
to different degrees. We have tried to stick through them and wait
for the product to get better along with the support. We were told
how .403 would be the solution to all the problems we were having,
WRONG. But the main reason is because of there inability to deliver
what they have prommised, and inability to deliver on a project.
This project has been past due since December of 06 and they still
cannot get it right. Without this project complete and working to
spec Vantage is useless to us. I would have to guess they have
delivered over 50 versions and each time it is a flop. I tell them
exaclty what the problem is they say the fix it and again it is not
working. They have lost our code, put a brand new to the company
programmer on the project, and seem to have no sense of urgency to
right there misteps. I cannot speak for each person individually
because some try to be very helpful, but as a collective whole they
just flat out stink.

I wish I could bill them for all my wasted time like our customers
bill us when we screw up there production line.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Rojas, Joe" <joe.rojas@...> wrote:
>
> If you don't mind sharing, what are the issues you're having with
Epicor
> that are making you considering dropping them?
>
>
>
> Joe Rojas
>
> Information Technology Manager
>
> Symmetry Medical New Bedford
>
> P: 508.998.4575
>
> C:508.838.4717
>
> F:508.995.9597
>
> joe.rojas@... <mailto:joe.rojas@...>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Michael McWilliams
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:34 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
>
>
>
> Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring
in
> some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product
is
> AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
> have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
> easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me
an
> email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point
that
> they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have
to
> start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right
now
> to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we
pull
> the plug.
> Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
8
That's interesting - we are actually in the process of migrating from DBA (and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I have not been around this company long enough to know all the reasons why, but I understand the initial impetus for the switch was the lack of scheduling ability in DBA. DBA is clearly a simpler program, and I'm not sure we will be any happier with scheduling in Vista. However, there is too much momentum now to change the program, you know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps after we have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is speaking from no day to day real life experience with Vista or Vantage, the ability to customize is an important advantage. I understand the problems with excess customization, and realize that change management and tracking is going to be a sooner rather than later proposition.

I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this company after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made, although, without the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned from this exchange, I would probably have agreed with the decision. After seeing others' challenges, if I were making the decision today, I would probably advocate a thorough review of DBA's capabilities to see if we could not make better use of that tool and enhance some of the other systems we now use. One concern I have about DBA is it does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror, LLC
T 425 776-4946 ext. 1024
A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com/>


From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of xorone
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor


We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and simplier) also MUCH cheaper.


Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@...<mailto:mmcwilliams22%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
If you wanted powerful scheduling (or even just competent late 70's MRPII scheduling) - you went the wrong route picking vantage/vista.

It is THE worst scheduling system I've ever used.

Rob Brown

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@...> wrote:
From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@...>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:06 PM











That's interesting - we are actually in the process of migrating from DBA (and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I have not been around this company long enough to know all the reasons why, but I understand the initial impetus for the switch was the lack of scheduling ability in DBA. DBA is clearly a simpler program, and I'm not sure we will be any happier with scheduling in Vista. However, there is too much momentum now to change the program, you know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps after we have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is speaking from no day to day real life experience with Vista or Vantage, the ability to customize is an important advantage. I understand the problems with excess customization, and realize that change management and tracking is going to be a sooner rather than later proposition.



I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this company after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made, although, without the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned from this exchange, I would probably have agreed with the decision. After seeing others' challenges, if I were making the decision today, I would probably advocate a thorough review of DBA's capabilities to see if we could not make better use of that tool and enhance some of the other systems we now use. One concern I have about DBA is it does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.



Thom Rose

Controller

Electric Mirror, LLC

T ext. 1024

A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA

www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>



From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of xorone

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and simplier) also MUCH cheaper.



Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@ yahoo.com<mailto:mmcwilliams 22%40yahoo. com>> wrote:

Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in

some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is

AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you

have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as

easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an

email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that

they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to

start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now

to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull

the plug.

Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
oh, we toy with scrapping it every day, usually when trying to achieve something very simple.

Example, try to add product weight (part.netweight) and dimensions to the existing quote report.
Try modifying a crystal report in general. It's just not a very pleasant experience, and the simplest things turn in to 2-3 day frustration affairs where you have to literally re-write things.
While the technicalities of Crystal are to blame in many ways, the reporting in general leaves me wondering - Did anyone involved in designing Vantage ever actually work in a real plant with real people? Didn't Epicor ever figure a plant might want a quick report to see what stock is below minimums, take in to account what's in stock and in transit, and give a re-order amount? What about pick lists? ugh. Why would you send guys out to the warehouse with a pick list that doesn't reflect previously shipped partials??? I could go on, but I'm probably preaching to the choir.
So many of the actions in Vantage have walkthroughs in Help that are absolutely wonderful until you are done using the test environment and Surprise! your first attempt to actually perform the action in a live environment leave you standing there shaking your head

While Vantage 8 is better than 6, still the concept of mass editing things or the concept of editing stuff in a spreadsheet type environment is far, far, far from implemented.
Why in hell can't I just sit with a spreadsheet of all shop employees and roll through the List tab updating the labor rates, arrow down, update next labor rate, arrow down, etc.
yes, I am well aware that I can add columns to the list, then Search select everyone and so on, but my point is the fact that most people are moving to Vantage from a hodge-podge collection of Excel spreadsheets, Quickbooks, and an Access-based orders or job creation program.
Vantage's designers need to read a book on Application and form design by Deborah Kurata, then read it again.

ok, enough venting.
Maybe you wonder what I do like about it.
I like that it's stable. It literally never crashes, and has been very stable in the entire lifespan. 6 was the best. 8 reaches for the stars and ends up over on the dirt somewhere.
The Progress versions of 3,5 and 6 were sturdy apps. Never gave me a problem. This SQL version of 8 we use likewise never does.
I know many people will disagree, but sincerely - it is not anywhere near as buggy as people claim. 99% of the time a user reports a bug to me, it's more a matter of they did something they didn't mean to do, didn't know what they were doing, or the software is so poorly documented that it was not clear what they were supposed to do and just closed their eyes and clicked.

And I like this community. no joke. I learn a lot reading here.



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:33:37 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor


Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
the plug.
Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
Thom,



Are you sure it is not too late to turn back?



Tim Stevenson



_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 11:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



If you wanted powerful scheduling (or even just competent late 70's MRPII
scheduling) - you went the wrong route picking vantage/vista.

It is THE worst scheduling system I've ever used.

Rob Brown

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr
<mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com> or.com> wrote:
From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr <mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com>
or.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
To: "vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com"
<vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:06 PM

That's interesting - we are actually in the process of migrating from DBA
(and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I have not been around this
company long enough to know all the reasons why, but I understand the
initial impetus for the switch was the lack of scheduling ability in DBA.
DBA is clearly a simpler program, and I'm not sure we will be any happier
with scheduling in Vista. However, there is too much momentum now to change
the program, you know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps
after we have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good
idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is speaking
from no day to day real life experience with Vista or Vantage, the ability
to customize is an important advantage. I understand the problems with
excess customization, and realize that change management and tracking is
going to be a sooner rather than later proposition.

I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this company
after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made, although, without
the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned from this exchange, I would
probably have agreed with the decision. After seeing others' challenges, if
I were making the decision today, I would probably advocate a thorough
review of DBA's capabilities to see if we could not make better use of that
tool and enhance some of the other systems we now use. One concern I have
about DBA is it does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.

Thom Rose

Controller

Electric Mirror, LLC

T ext. 1024

A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA

www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of xorone

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor

We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS
customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance
costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and
simplier) also MUCH cheaper.

Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@ yahoo.com<mailto:mmcwilliams 22%40yahoo.
com>> wrote:

Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in

some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is

AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you

have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as

easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an

email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that

they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to

start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now

to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull

the plug.

Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
I'm from Asia Pacific, running 6.10 and I could relate to yours and
other users' stories. However, we do not have the opportunity of
re-implementing another solution, and I'm trying my best to make the
best use of what we got in vantage 6.10.

1) The implementation was absolutely horrible.
2) Documentation is crap, and I learned more from browsing the
collective experiences here than our own BRR.
3) As Tony Hughes mentioned, we too scratch our heads as to why 'basic
and essential' reports were not included by default.
4) Support is horrible, their support manager actually complains back
to me, and threatens for a raise in maintenance fees if you asked a
question too many. Questions which I don't need to ask in the first
place if the help file or the BRR is helpful enough.
5) Support's answering 'That falls under consulting, and it's billable'

The implementation guys left things off on a very bad footing for me,
and I'm starting off fresh on a new database which I can train the end
user and monitor closely, without all the junks accumulated in 2 years
of training, misuse, bad support, lousy implementation.



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Michael McWilliams"
<mmcwilliams22@...> wrote:
>
> Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
> some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is
> AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
> have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
> easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
> email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that
> they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
> start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
> to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull
> the plug.
> Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?
>
1 Like
13
I have the same feeling as yours, even my company has bought APS module, it
still cannot satisfy our production scheduling needs very much.



Keith Kwok

Ka Shui Holdings Co., Ltd



_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



If you wanted powerful scheduling (or even just competent late 70's MRPII
scheduling) - you went the wrong route picking vantage/vista.

It is THE worst scheduling system I've ever used.

Rob Brown

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr
<mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com> or.com> wrote:
From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr <mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com>
or.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
To: "vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com"
<vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:06 PM

That's interesting - we are actually in the process of migrating from DBA
(and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I have not been around this
company long enough to know all the reasons why, but I understand the
initial impetus for the switch was the lack of scheduling ability in DBA.
DBA is clearly a simpler program, and I'm not sure we will be any happier
with scheduling in Vista. However, there is too much momentum now to change
the program, you know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps
after we have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good
idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is speaking
from no day to day real life experience with Vista or Vantage, the ability
to customize is an important advantage. I understand the problems with
excess customization, and realize that change management and tracking is
going to be a sooner rather than later proposition.

I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this company
after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made, although, without
the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned from this exchange, I would
probably have agreed with the decision. After seeing others' challenges, if
I were making the decision today, I would probably advocate a thorough
review of DBA's capabilities to see if we could not make better use of that
tool and enhance some of the other systems we now use. One concern I have
about DBA is it does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.

Thom Rose

Controller

Electric Mirror, LLC

T ext. 1024

A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA

www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of xorone

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor

We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS
customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance
costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and
simplier) also MUCH cheaper.

Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@ yahoo.com<mailto:mmcwilliams 22%40yahoo.
com>> wrote:

Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in

some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is

AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you

have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as

easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an

email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that

they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to

start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now

to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull

the plug.

Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14
Rob,



Any workaround you are using now for scheduling?



Keith Kwok



_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Keith Kwok
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:49 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor



I have the same feeling as yours, even my company has bought APS module, it
still cannot satisfy our production scheduling needs very much.

Keith Kwok

Ka Shui Holdings Co., Ltd

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of
Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor

If you wanted powerful scheduling (or even just competent late 70's MRPII
scheduling) - you went the wrong route picking vantage/vista.

It is THE worst scheduling system I've ever used.

Rob Brown

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr
<mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com> or.com> wrote:
From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@electricmirr <mailto:t.rose%40electricmirror.com>
or.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
To: "vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com"
<vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com>
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:06 PM

That's interesting - we are actually in the process of migrating from DBA
(and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I have not been around this
company long enough to know all the reasons why, but I understand the
initial impetus for the switch was the lack of scheduling ability in DBA.
DBA is clearly a simpler program, and I'm not sure we will be any happier
with scheduling in Vista. However, there is too much momentum now to change
the program, you know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps
after we have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good
idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is speaking
from no day to day real life experience with Vista or Vantage, the ability
to customize is an important advantage. I understand the problems with
excess customization, and realize that change management and tracking is
going to be a sooner rather than later proposition.

I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this company
after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made, although, without
the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned from this exchange, I would
probably have agreed with the decision. After seeing others' challenges, if
I were making the decision today, I would probably advocate a thorough
review of DBA's capabilities to see if we could not make better use of that
tool and enhance some of the other systems we now use. One concern I have
about DBA is it does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.

Thom Rose

Controller

Electric Mirror, LLC

T ext. 1024

A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA

www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of xorone

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor

We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS
customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The maintenance
costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing (smaller and
simplier) also MUCH cheaper.

Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@ yahoo.com<mailto:mmcwilliams 22%40yahoo.
com>> wrote:

Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in

some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product is

AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you

have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as

easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an

email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point that

they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to

start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now

to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we pull

the plug.

Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15
I have heard a lot of complaints about Vantage so far and i just
wanted to say that our experience has been very good with Vantage.
They have their downfalls but they are improving, immensely. We are
8.03 and have been live for almost a year now. Out of the box, where
Vantage falls apart, are ALL the printable forms. Quote form, Sales
Order form, Pick List, Packing slip, PO form, Methods Master...every
form delivered was almost worthless. The beauty of Vantage, however,
is that i was able to develop and customize all the forms to meet our
exact needs. It seems like Vantage is so customizable that wherever it
falls short, i have been able to come up with an "easy" solution and
modify Vantage to work for our company, instead of our company working
for Vantage. That is invaluable. It takes some time to get the
software working and looking just how you want it, but if there is a
resource in the company that can take the time and learn the software
IN DEPTH, i think you will find that you can do an awful lot with Vantage.
16
I have no doubt that this has the potential to be a great product.
I have been able to do so much using the tools. We have already
added code and customized about every screen and form there is, and
we continue to tweak it. But it is like having a really nice car in
your garage with 4 flat tires. For the short term I think we will
continue to struggle along and see where we land with Epicor. I
will though be bringing in backups, just incase.
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "laidig.systems"
<laidig.systems@...> wrote:
>
> I have heard a lot of complaints about Vantage so far and i just
> wanted to say that our experience has been very good with Vantage.
> They have their downfalls but they are improving, immensely. We
are
> 8.03 and have been live for almost a year now. Out of the box,
where
> Vantage falls apart, are ALL the printable forms. Quote form,
Sales
> Order form, Pick List, Packing slip, PO form, Methods
Master...every
> form delivered was almost worthless. The beauty of Vantage,
however,
> is that i was able to develop and customize all the forms to meet
our
> exact needs. It seems like Vantage is so customizable that
wherever it
> falls short, i have been able to come up with an "easy" solution
and
> modify Vantage to work for our company, instead of our company
working
> for Vantage. That is invaluable. It takes some time to get the
> software working and looking just how you want it, but if there is
a
> resource in the company that can take the time and learn the
software
> IN DEPTH, i think you will find that you can do an awful lot with
Vantage.
>
17
I would continue what you've said here and say that it sounds like the
difference between really bad implementations and mediocre to good
implementations is on hand staff that can handle the customization work.

We've been live for 18 months, it took over a year to go live and at the
time we only had about 40 employees. I was hired to implement Vantage 8
months into the process as the company we bought the software was having
a lot of difficulties getting us up and running. I was able to come in,
learn the system, learn the customization of Crystal, screens, scripts,
etc. and we enjoy it quite a bit now. I basically spent the first 4
months I worked here doing nothing but learning & training the system
thoroughly. Even with the 4 months of my dedicated time, our transition
was rocky at best.

Our biggest complaint, is when we do have an issue that we can't
resolve, support is extremely hit or miss on being able to help. I'm
quite certain if a person with my skill set did not exist in our
company, the company would be very much on the 'abandon bandwagon'.

I'm not saying it should be required to have someone that can do in
depth customization work and take 4+ months to learn the system inside
and out, but it worked for us, and seems to be what was expressed below.


I should also say that it would cripple us to not have the system now.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of laidig.systems
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Plans to Drop Epicor



I have heard a lot of complaints about Vantage so far and i just
wanted to say that our experience has been very good with Vantage.
They have their downfalls but they are improving, immensely. We are
8.03 and have been live for almost a year now. Out of the box, where
Vantage falls apart, are ALL the printable forms. Quote form, Sales
Order form, Pick List, Packing slip, PO form, Methods Master...every
form delivered was almost worthless. The beauty of Vantage, however,
is that i was able to develop and customize all the forms to meet our
exact needs. It seems like Vantage is so customizable that wherever it
falls short, i have been able to come up with an "easy" solution and
modify Vantage to work for our company, instead of our company working
for Vantage. That is invaluable. It takes some time to get the
software working and looking just how you want it, but if there is a
resource in the company that can take the time and learn the software
IN DEPTH, i think you will find that you can do an awful lot with
Vantage.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18
It is not a really useful tool for 99% of the Vantage installs.
I won't disagree, the ability to customize is fantastic.
But talking as programmer, it is far from intuitive and unlike any other modern programming IDE.
Add that it is completely lacking in documentation and you have only the hardcore and devoted who have the time and energy to use it.

Useful for custom programmers, but at $1500 to $3000 a pop for simple things like "change the default Release plant to the plant the user is currently logged in to when a new line is added" and it really isn't as useful a tool as it might seem.
Also, I don't think shops that can afford a full time programmer are even using Vantage, more likely using SAP.






----- Original Message ----
From: laidig.systems <laidig.systems@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:19:37 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Plans to Drop Epicor


I have heard a lot of complaints about Vantage so far and i just
wanted to say that our experience has been very good with Vantage.
They have their downfalls but they are improving, immensely. We are
8.03 and have been live for almost a year now. Out of the box, where
Vantage falls apart, are ALL the printable forms. Quote form, Sales
Order form, Pick List, Packing slip, PO form, Methods Master...every
form delivered was almost worthless. The beauty of Vantage, however,
is that i was able to develop and customize all the forms to meet our
exact needs. It seems like Vantage is so customizable that wherever it
falls short, i have been able to come up with an "easy" solution and
modify Vantage to work for our company, instead of our company working
for Vantage. That is invaluable. It takes some time to get the
software working and looking just how you want it, but if there is a
resource in the company that can take the time and learn the software
IN DEPTH, i think you will find that you can do an awful lot with Vantage.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
19
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Michael McWilliams"
<mmcwilliams22@...> wrote:
>
> Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
> some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product
is
> AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
> have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
> easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
> email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point
that
> they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
> start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
> to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we
pull
> the plug.
> Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?
>
Mike:
It sounds like to me to me you simply did not have a good implementor
(s). We have an excellent implementation. If you want customizations,
you just needed to ask this group. I am sure that several of us could
make recommendations to you. I know some great programmers in PA. To
comment on scheduling, with the 405A patch it should be as good as
anything on the market.
20
With the 405A patch solving the Overlap problem, Vantage will have an
excellent scheduling product. I experienced many others scheduling
products and Vantage is as good as they come.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> If you wanted powerful scheduling (or even just competent late 70's
MRPII scheduling) - you went the wrong route picking vantage/vista.
>
> It is THE worst scheduling system I've ever used.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@...> wrote:
> From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@...>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
> To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:06 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> That's interesting - we are actually in the process of
migrating from DBA (and a hodgepodge of other systems) to Vista. I
have not been around this company long enough to know all the reasons
why, but I understand the initial impetus for the switch was the lack
of scheduling ability in DBA. DBA is clearly a simpler program, and
I'm not sure we will be any happier with scheduling in Vista.
However, there is too much momentum now to change the program, you
know, "Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" Perhaps after we
have lived with Vista for a year or so we will have a pretty good
idea how well it will work in our situation. For us, and this is
speaking from no day to day real life experience with Vista or
Vantage, the ability to customize is an important advantage. I
understand the problems with excess customization, and realize that
change management and tracking is going to be a sooner rather than
later proposition.
>
>
>
> I am in the fortunate position of having been brought in to this
company after the decision to adopt Vista had already been made,
although, without the benefit of all the knowledge I have gleaned
from this exchange, I would probably have agreed with the decision.
After seeing others' challenges, if I were making the decision today,
I would probably advocate a thorough review of DBA's capabilities to
see if we could not make better use of that tool and enhance some of
the other systems we now use. One concern I have about DBA is it
does have a clunky interface compared to Vista.
>
>
>
> Thom Rose
>
> Controller
>
> Electric Mirror, LLC
>
> T ext. 1024
>
> A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
>
> www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf Of xorone
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:49 AM
>
> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
>
> Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Vantage] Plans to Drop Epicor
>
>
>
> We have certainly considered it. Our problem stems from the ENDLESS
customization & features that Vantage allows you to do. The
maintenance costs are huge. Have been considering DBA Manufacturing
(smaller and simplier) also MUCH cheaper.
>
>
>
> Michael McWilliams <mmcwilliams22@ yahoo.com<mailto:mmcwilliams 22%
40yahoo. com>> wrote:
>
> Although we have not 100% implemented I have been asked to bring in
>
> some of our runners up from the ERP selection process. The product
is
>
> AXIOM. Not sure if anyone has any experience with them but if you
>
> have please let me know. I have not seen any products that seem as
>
> easy to customize as Vantage 8, any recommendations? Just send me an
>
> email if you could. They are so fed up with Epicor at this point
that
>
> they either get it together and resolve our issues or I will have to
>
> start all over with another company. Our execs are meeting right now
>
> to decide on a deadline for them to deliver in complete before we
pull
>
> the plug.
>
> Has anyone else toyed with the notion to scrap version 8?
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>