Phantom BOMs

Yahoo Archive
1
Robert-



Thank you. That makes a whole lot more sense. I will double check the
assembly settings in the engineering workbench.



Adam Riffer

Purchasing

IQuum, Inc.

508-970-0099x506

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From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Brown
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs





Sounds like some misinformation here (unless you are on v9 and it behaves
fundamentally different than v8) - non-stock/phantom flagged parts behave
just as they would on any traditional MRP II system for the last 40 odd
years. They do not have to be backflush as they are not at all involved in
transactions: They only detemine how the jobs details will generate.

If you need lot tracking (or WANT to see all the BOM levels in job details),
set them up as non-stock non-phantom and your job will have an assy level
(like a tree) for them.

Again: whether you backflush or not is not inherent, in multi-level assy
jobs that is simply a decision you need to make on how to set up the part
for your environment.

All of this boils down to the method itself. Non-stock/phantoms by default
when added to a method will have their pull & view as assy flags checked.
Stock/non-phantoms will not (and the part will appear as a from stock job
requirement detail).

Non-phantom/non-stocks, if you keep pull & view as assy checked, will
generate an asy level in a job (a labor reportable 'leg' - and you can have
multiple legs under each leg if you wish).

It is the combo of the phantom/nonstock partplant settings AND the pull &
view as assy checkboxes in the method that give you options to get jobs in
your desired form (as well as what type of default demand link the job might
have).

(Material) Backflushing is a seperate issue.

________________________________
From: Adam Riffer <ariffer@... <mailto:ariffer%40iquum.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs


Jerry-

That makes a little more sense, but is frustrating. Because we lot track
everything, we cannot use backflush. I was hoping to eliminate one level of
transactions. The way I had read phantoms was that the BoMs existed only on
a printed BoM but behaved like they were invisible (i.e. meaning of
phantom). This caveat that the parts have to be backflushable seems to make
it a worthless feature. Because if I could backflush the parts then I don't
care how many levels there are. I will give an example of our structure and
what I was hoping to get rid of. We use labels we print ourselves. The
labels have materials and a specification therefore they have a bom, but
they aren't printed until they are used on the level above. So there is no
value in the label level of the bom. But we want material lot traceability.
Therefore I was expecting a phantom would do the trick so you still see the
documentation structure on a printed BoM, save the wasted transactions and
maintain traceability. Seems like another bait and switch by Epicor. Their
documentation does not say that it is limited to backflush.

Seems like I am having to work to use Epicor instead of making Vantage work
for me.

Adam Riffer

Purchasing

IQuum, Inc.

508-970-0099x506

********************************************************************

This message, including any attachments, is intended only for the designated
recipient(s). It contains CONFIDENTIAL and/or PROPRIETARY information and
may be subject to attorney-client privilege or other confidentiality
protections. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review,
use, copy or distribute this message. If you received this in error, please
notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Jerry W. Rodden
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs

When using phantom BOMs to pull child parts through, you have to make
sure that all parts are marked for backflush on the Plant Tab in the
part master file. If this box isn't checked, no material will be pulled
through.

Jerry Rodden

Staff Administrator

Manangement Information Systems

Cardington Yutaka Technologies Inc.

575 West Main Street

Cardington, OH 43315

email:jrodden@... <mailto:jrodden%40yutakatech.com>
<mailto:jrodden%40yutakatech.com>

Phone: 419-864-8777 ext. 6209

FAX: 419-864-7771

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
Hi all,

I am fairly new to this group but have watched the group antics from
the sidelines for the last few months, but now feel the need to
reach out for some advice. I am a Vantage user (rather than
administrator) that has been asked to make a not too user friendly
system (Vantage 5.1) more, ummm...user friendly. Rather than pound
nails with my forehead, I thought I'd ask for help.

I am trying to reduce some of the manufacturing steps in our overly
detailed BOMS by utilizing Phantoms. Each phantom BOM I've set up
concatinates all operation steps for both the upper assembly and the
phantom, giving me two stock pull operations, etc. Vantage then
gives me a hand by changing the operation number to accomodate the
added operations. I can delete the now excess operations from the
routing but then have no operation step to link phantom material
to "related operation".

Any advice from the experts on how to effectively utilize phantom
BOMs in our favorite software we love to hate?

TIA

Michael Rohrs
Production Control Manager
Servo Magnetics, Inc.
3
Can anybody explain to me what a Phantom BOM is and what situations would you use them.

Thanks,

Jasper



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
Jasper asks:
> Can anybody explain to me what a Phantom BOM is and what situations would
> you use them.

Phantom BOMs are a special case of non-stocking items. As the name implies,
they don't exist in inventory but what they do is logically group parts that
are used together. For example, they are assembled during the assembly process
but you would never open a job and store them on the shelf.

So how do they work? If you have a phantom BOM A, with parts B and C on it and
part A is on a BOM and marked as Pull As Assembly, when you do a Get Details,
part A is exploded and parts B and C are added to your materials list. Part A
is not. If you do an Add Material on the job, it's like putting a
non-stockable part there and you won't see part B or C.

So, what are phantoms good for?

First of all, they are good for options. If you have an option that includes a
whole set of parts and this option can be used on many finished goods, you can
create a phantom BOM and include it as necessary. The nice part is if the
option parts change for engineering reasons, you check out the phantom BOM to
the Work Bench, make the change, and all of your BOMs that use it are up to
date.

Another reason to use phantoms is as a multiplier. Say you're making wire.
Each foot of wire contains a red, green and blue wire. So you create a phantom
BOM that includes one foot of red, blue, and green wire. Now you get an order
for a 5 foot cable. You change the QPA of the phantom to 5 and you
automatically get five feet of each color wire.

I hope that helps.

Mark W.
5
Can someone explain the use and purpose of Phantom BoMs? I tried one and it didn't work the way I expected it to. From the help section I expected when I cut a work order for the parent of a phantom for it to pull the children of the phantom straight to the work order of the parent. It did not appear to do this. I was hoping it was a transaction simplification tool.

thank you

Adam
6
A phantom will be absorbed into the parent assembly.
Materials can also be distributed to the appropriate operations in the parents method.

One use for a phantom is for grouping parts that might be changed out depending on options in a parent.


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "ariffer" <ariffer@...> wrote:
>
> Can someone explain the use and purpose of Phantom BoMs? I tried one and it didn't work the way I expected it to. From the help section I expected when I cut a work order for the parent of a phantom for it to pull the children of the phantom straight to the work order of the parent. It did not appear to do this. I was hoping it was a transaction simplification tool.
>
> thank you
>
> Adam
>
7
Bruce wrote:
> A phantom will be absorbed into the parent assembly.
> Materials can also be distributed to the appropriate operations in the
> parents method.
>
> One use for a phantom is for grouping parts that might be changed out
> depending on options in a parent.

In pre-configurator days, we used phantoms like Bruce mentioned, i.e.
groups of parts that could be switched out.

Another use of phantoms is for making it easy to order multiples of
parts in groups. One example would be wire. I could have a BOM with
one inch of red, blue, green, and brown wire. To make a foot of this
cable, all I have to do is change the qty on the phantom and voila! I
have multiples of everything underneath.

In the post-configurator world, we put a rule on the phantom bills to
include them as options.

Mark W.
8
When using phantom BOMs to pull child parts through, you have to make
sure that all parts are marked for backflush on the Plant Tab in the
part master file. If this box isn't checked, no material will be pulled
through.



Jerry Rodden

Staff Administrator

Manangement Information Systems

Cardington Yutaka Technologies Inc.

575 West Main Street

Cardington, OH 43315

email:jrodden@...

Phone: 419-864-8777 ext. 6209

FAX: 419-864-7771





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Jerry-



That makes a little more sense, but is frustrating. Because we lot track
everything, we cannot use backflush. I was hoping to eliminate one level of
transactions. The way I had read phantoms was that the BoMs existed only on
a printed BoM but behaved like they were invisible (i.e. meaning of
phantom). This caveat that the parts have to be backflushable seems to make
it a worthless feature. Because if I could backflush the parts then I don't
care how many levels there are. I will give an example of our structure and
what I was hoping to get rid of. We use labels we print ourselves. The
labels have materials and a specification therefore they have a bom, but
they aren't printed until they are used on the level above. So there is no
value in the label level of the bom. But we want material lot traceability.
Therefore I was expecting a phantom would do the trick so you still see the
documentation structure on a printed BoM, save the wasted transactions and
maintain traceability. Seems like another bait and switch by Epicor. Their
documentation does not say that it is limited to backflush.



Seems like I am having to work to use Epicor instead of making Vantage work
for me.



Adam Riffer

Purchasing

IQuum, Inc.

508-970-0099x506

********************************************************************

This message, including any attachments, is intended only for the designated
recipient(s). It contains CONFIDENTIAL and/or PROPRIETARY information and
may be subject to attorney-client privilege or other confidentiality
protections. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review,
use, copy or distribute this message. If you received this in error, please
notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jerry W. Rodden
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs





When using phantom BOMs to pull child parts through, you have to make
sure that all parts are marked for backflush on the Plant Tab in the
part master file. If this box isn't checked, no material will be pulled
through.

Jerry Rodden

Staff Administrator

Manangement Information Systems

Cardington Yutaka Technologies Inc.

575 West Main Street

Cardington, OH 43315

email:jrodden@... <mailto:jrodden%40yutakatech.com>

Phone: 419-864-8777 ext. 6209

FAX: 419-864-7771

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
This is incorrect (at least in 9.05.606+). We use phantom but everything is lot tracked so no backflushing is possible.

The way we set it up is as follows. Part A is purchased. Part B is the manufactured subcomponent made from Part A. Part C is the finished good made from part B. We want part B to be phantom.

Setup part C with a proper BOO. On the BOM add part B. On the BOM make sure that part B is set to 'view as assembly' and 'pull as assembly'.

Setup part B with no BOO, but give it a BOM of part C. On the part and part plant card set the part to phantom.

When you generate a job for part C it will pull it together and give you a BOM containing only part A (as B was collapsed via phantom) and the op set from part C.

You can do all sorts of variations depending upon what you want, but that is the basics of it.

Two key elements: (1) where a phantom appears on a BOM it must be set to "pull as assembly." (2). The phantom part must have "phantom BOM" checked at the part/part plant level.

Good luck,

Tom Christie

Manufacturing Engineer

AGM Container Controls
3526 E Ft. Lowell Road
Tucson AZ, 85716
PH: 520-881-2130
FX: 520-881-4983
www.AGMcontainer.com<http://www.agmcontainer.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
We are on 8.03.405 and this is the way phantoms work for us as well. It doesn't matter whether the parts are backflush or not. (We do mark the phantom assemblies as "backflush", but I think that's just a habit/procedural thing we do with any part that is not lot- or serial-tracked.)

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Tom J. Christie" <tchristie@...> wrote:
>
> This is incorrect (at least in 9.05.606+). We use phantom but everything is lot tracked so no backflushing is possible.
>
> The way we set it up is as follows. Part A is purchased. Part B is the manufactured subcomponent made from Part A. Part C is the finished good made from part B. We want part B to be phantom.
>
> Setup part C with a proper BOO. On the BOM add part B. On the BOM make sure that part B is set to 'view as assembly' and 'pull as assembly'.
>
> Setup part B with no BOO, but give it a BOM of part C. On the part and part plant card set the part to phantom.
>
> When you generate a job for part C it will pull it together and give you a BOM containing only part A (as B was collapsed via phantom) and the op set from part C.
>
> You can do all sorts of variations depending upon what you want, but that is the basics of it.
>
> Two key elements: (1) where a phantom appears on a BOM it must be set to "pull as assembly." (2). The phantom part must have "phantom BOM" checked at the part/part plant level.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Tom Christie
>
> Manufacturing Engineer
>
> AGM Container Controls
> 3526 E Ft. Lowell Road
> Tucson AZ, 85716
> PH: 520-881-2130
> FX: 520-881-4983
> www.AGMcontainer.com<http://www.agmcontainer.com/>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
12
Sounds like some misinformation here (unless you are on v9 and it behaves fundamentally different than v8) - non-stock/phantom flagged parts behave just as they would on any traditional MRP II system for the last 40 odd years. They do not have to be backflush as they are not at all involved in transactions: They only detemine how the jobs details will generate.
Â
If you need lot tracking (or WANT to see all the BOM levels in job details), set them up as non-stock non-phantom and your job will have an assy level (like a tree) for them.
Â
Again: whether you backflush or not is not inherent, in multi-level assy jobs that is simply a decision you need to make on how to set up the part for your environment.
Â
All of this boils down to the method itself. Non-stock/phantoms by default when added to a method will have their pull & view as assy flags checked. Stock/non-phantoms will not (and the part will appear as a from stock job requirement detail).
Â
Non-phantom/non-stocks, if you keep pull & view as assy checked, will generate an asy level in a job (a labor reportable 'leg' - and you can have multiple legs under each leg if you wish).
Â
It is the combo of the phantom/nonstock partplant settings AND the pull & view as assy checkboxes in the method that give you options to get jobs in your desired form (as well as what type of default demand link the job might have).
Â
(Material) Backflushing is a seperate issue.Â


________________________________
From: Adam Riffer <ariffer@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs


Â
Jerry-

That makes a little more sense, but is frustrating. Because we lot track
everything, we cannot use backflush. I was hoping to eliminate one level of
transactions. The way I had read phantoms was that the BoMs existed only on
a printed BoM but behaved like they were invisible (i.e. meaning of
phantom). This caveat that the parts have to be backflushable seems to make
it a worthless feature. Because if I could backflush the parts then I don't
care how many levels there are. I will give an example of our structure and
what I was hoping to get rid of. We use labels we print ourselves. The
labels have materials and a specification therefore they have a bom, but
they aren't printed until they are used on the level above. So there is no
value in the label level of the bom. But we want material lot traceability.
Therefore I was expecting a phantom would do the trick so you still see the
documentation structure on a printed BoM, save the wasted transactions and
maintain traceability. Seems like another bait and switch by Epicor. Their
documentation does not say that it is limited to backflush.

Seems like I am having to work to use Epicor instead of making Vantage work
for me.

Adam Riffer

Purchasing

IQuum, Inc.

508-970-0099x506

********************************************************************

This message, including any attachments, is intended only for the designated
recipient(s). It contains CONFIDENTIAL and/or PROPRIETARY information and
may be subject to attorney-client privilege or other confidentiality
protections. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review,
use, copy or distribute this message. If you received this in error, please
notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jerry W. Rodden
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Phantom BOMs

When using phantom BOMs to pull child parts through, you have to make
sure that all parts are marked for backflush on the Plant Tab in the
part master file. If this box isn't checked, no material will be pulled
through.

Jerry Rodden

Staff Administrator

Manangement Information Systems

Cardington Yutaka Technologies Inc.

575 West Main Street

Cardington, OH 43315

email:jrodden@... <mailto:jrodden%40yutakatech.com>

Phone: 419-864-8777 ext. 6209

FAX: 419-864-7771

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]