Hi guys,
I’ve got a question regarding phantom BOMs and their scrap.
We recently upgraded from Vantage to E10 and we use phantom BOM’s in some of our methods, but we noticed a fundamental change in the formula when we used “get details” in the jobs from Vantage to E10.
In our plant we fill large moulds with a resin formulation consisting of several mixed ingredients and each mould varies in volume size ranging from say 500L to 3000L. We know the theoretical weight in kg to fill each mould plus we also know that each mould fill requires a set amount of scrap mixture which is lost in the hose connecting the mixer to the mould. This scrap is 20kg per fill regardless of the size of mould we’re using.
Our phantom BOM is the recipe to make 1kg of mix. For example;
Material A = 0.2kg
Material B = 0.5kg
Material C = 0.25kg
Material D = 0.05kg
Total = 1.0kg
When we detail a MOM we use the theoretical qty of mix required per fill. Therefore, if our fill weight was 1000kg we would detail 1000kg of the parent phantom part then a scrap qty of 20kg.
When using “get details” in a job, Vantage would collapse the phantom BOM into the child ingredients and multiply 1000+20 (1020kg) by each of the child ingredients giving us;
Material A = 204kg scrap = 0
Material B = 510kg scrap = 0
Material C = 255kg scrap = 0
Material D = 51kg scrap = 0
Total 1020kg (PERFECT)
E10 however returns the following;
Material A = 200kg plus a separate scrap qty of 20kg (Total 220kg)
Material B = 500kg plus a separate scrap qty of 20kg (Total 520kg)
Material C = 250kg plus a separate scrap qty of 20kg (Total 270kg)
Material D = 50kg plus a separate scrap qty of 20kg (Total 70kg)
Total 1080kg (NOT PERFECT !)
We’ve raised this with Epicor who tell us that E10 is working how it’s designed to do. I’m not buying this as I could understand the system adding a qty of 20kg if we’re referring to a bog standard single parent material but surely not a phantom.
Has anyone else came across this and if you did, how did you go about fixing it. Is Epicor correct?
We also use a phantom for a resin mixture + scrap and had our own conversion challenges when converting from Avante to Epicor 10. We went live in 2015 so I’m going back through emails to try and figure out out how we overcame our issue.
Our issue is that we wanted scrap applied twice. Once when we mixed the resin, and a second time when we applied it to the mold. We are using percent scrap and not a fixed QTY. Our old system, Avante, would take the (phantom*mixing scrap%) then (exploded phantom * application scrap%) when you created the job. Epicor 10 only allowed us to have the scrap at the phantom level and on the top level we use a scrap of zero and adjust the Quantity/Per if we need to.
Where are you setting the Scrap factor? On the Phantom Part number, on the top level?
This is an untested thought… but could you update your resin mix and set the fixed scrap amounts to be:
Material A = 0.2kg Scrap 4kg
Material B = 0.5kg Scrap 10kg
Material C = 0.25kg Scrap 5kg
Material D = 0.05kg Scrap 1kg
Total = 1.0kg + 20kg Scrap
Then if you used 1 or 10,000kg if would have the same scrap?
We are on 10.0.700.4. I’m not sure if they have changed anything since then.
Thanks for the reply Andrew, I’ll try out your suggestion. Still can’t work out why 20kg would be added to every child component of the phantom though. This doesn’t follow any sensible logic whatsoever.
Have you tried making separate lines for each material’s scrap, but set the Qty Per as fixed and no scrap?
10 Material A = 0.2kg
20 Material B = 0.5kg
30 Material C = 0.25kg
40 Material D = 0.05kg
50 Material A = 4kg fixed qty
60 Material B = 10kg fixed qty
70 Material C = 5kg fixed qty
80 Material D = 1kg fixed qty
Still no joy from Epicor, they still insist it’s working how it should be. I’m not buying it as it doesn’t follow any sensible logic whatsoever but we’ll have to accept to agree to disagree.
The only solution I can see is that we add a 2nd phantom part of the same parent part number of Qty 20kg with zero scrap factor and remove the scrap entirely on the original parent phantom part.
Thanks for your help anyway guys.
Cheers,
Rob