Mmmmmmmmmmmm..... Not that it sounds like management can be swayed, but you
need to pose some questions. Descriptive part numbers sounds like a nice
idea, but is it worth losing all the history that you have?
You have five options, as I see it, if you want to preserve history, which
is an absolute must.
1) Convert the database using a complex search and replace 4GL program,
which would have to be done by Epicor, or an Epicor Certified Solutions
Provider. Using any other source, as far as your concerned, is not an
option, because the the license agreement states that modifications to the
database not sanctioned by epicor are unsupported, and could cause all
future related support to be billable. (e-mail Doug Williams, director of
Epicor development, to verify that statement if you so desire.) In this case
we're talking the entire vantage system being altered by this program, so
after this program is run, Epicor could legally say that all future support
from here on out in any module of vantage that refers to a part is billable
(not that they necessarily would, but they legally could). Estimated Cost
in the tens of thousands of dollars. Not to mention the fact that you still
have tens of thousands of cad drawings for which you are going to have
another firm design a search and replace program.
2) Manually reconstruct the database from scratch, printing out reports of
all the data in the system, and manually re-entering every transaction that
has ever occurred in vantage with the new part number, in the order that
they
occurred. This would require writing some extensive history reports, the
logic of some of which may require Progress 4GL reports. Money for you to
become more versed in 4GL, or to hire custom programming to do the job.
Since the code would be read only, the liability issues are minimal, but we
are talking at least six months to a year of database down time to do
manually recreate the database using new part numbers.
3) Leave the old part numbers in. mark them all inactive. For each new
style part number that you create that references an old part number, put
the old part number in the extended description. People would still have to
be familiar with both numbering schemes because there would be an interim
period in which transactions are taking place on old and new style part
numbers, unless you want to take the United States Division down for a few
weeks to a month do all the part conversions at once. At least all
customers would see from here on out are the Dutch part numbers.
4) Leave things the way they are, implement the new style part numbers for
NEW PARTS ONLY. Of course, say you have a thousand part Dutch part number
style assembly. That new assembly is the same as an existing assembly,
except for two parts, so you'll have a new style parent part number
referencing old style parts. Unacceptable. So you perform step number 3,
on just the parts in that assembly. In the long run, we're basically
talking a longer, drawn out version of step number 3, as more assemblies
become revised and reused. Everyone will have to be versed in both part
numbering schemes. More Confusion, especially for THE CUSTOMERS.
Play the nationality card. for example 'No US company in their right mind
would use two different part numbering schemes simultaneously, and no US
company worth their weight in salt would consider a company that has such
practices to be professional.'
5) Completely leave things the way they are, don't use new style part
numbers. Include the Dutch part number in as a reference in the extended
description, have them put the US style part numbers in their extended
descriptions (if their Novell DB even has extended descriptions) You guys
have to translate manuals, product descriptions, etc. all the time. Why not
live with the hassle of translating part numbers too?
6)Final Option - you could reccomend that while we're using a dutch
numbering scheme, why don't we use Dutch Descriptions, and manuals as well?
We'd cut the tech writing staff in half. The only expense would be teaching
all our employees, and all of our customers a new language.
I'd reccomend option (1) to the folks upstairs. Get a quote from custom
programming, and from a custom CAD programming place, to mass convert the
entire database and all the drawing files from one numbering scheme to
another. Send the bill to HQ, and tell them that's what it cost will be to
their new part numbering scheme. In the mean time, I'd take up Urban
Sanitatary Waste Management. It sounds like a much cleaner job to me.
$0.02 - Thaddeus
-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron A. Janish [mailto:cajanish@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:39 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Have you considered running away and joining the circus. If you are going
to have to deal with monkeys at least you would get to travel.
Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 02:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
OK, I'll give you guys the history here....
We are the US offspring of a Dutch company. The home office has the
general
attitude that A) whatever they do they have been doing it 10 years longer
than us and is therfore better, and B), anything that we do in the US is
"evil" and borderline stupid.
We produce exactly the same machines (although the US side is more
innovative and open to new technologies). Currently there is no
cooperation
or communication, but mgmt has figured out that we can combine our
purchasing efforts and save a few $$. It is easier when we deal with one
part number used by both companies for the same part. Also, they are
looking at future (global) expansion, and they want to create one cookie
cutter way of setting up shop easily in a (probably) low wage country.
This
meant for us that we are now forced to start buying and producing in
metric,
which is not that big of a deal, except when it comes to purchasing
sheetmetal and tubing. Worse, it also means that we have to adopt decades
old standards and procedures from the home office, since they are not
willing to use ours. Here comes the real kicker; when we proposed that
they start using Vantage instead of their old DOS based '80's MRP (which
can
not produce a single usable or customizable report, and for which no
support
is available), it was like we proposed to overthrow the Dutch government.
I
had envisioned Vantage running independently at both companies, but each
with Citrix access to the other, and some other goodies to boot. Right.
Of
course, they are running Novell 4 as their network OS, and, over their
dead
bodies, will allow anything as evil as a Microsoft product ever to enter
their building.
In short, US mgmt came back from the home office with their tails between
their legs, and I am at the end of the receiving line.....
And now you know the rest of the story.....
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 14:46
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Paul,
Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye
as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts
in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both
the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?
That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.
I love being part of this e-group.....
Paul
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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need to pose some questions. Descriptive part numbers sounds like a nice
idea, but is it worth losing all the history that you have?
You have five options, as I see it, if you want to preserve history, which
is an absolute must.
1) Convert the database using a complex search and replace 4GL program,
which would have to be done by Epicor, or an Epicor Certified Solutions
Provider. Using any other source, as far as your concerned, is not an
option, because the the license agreement states that modifications to the
database not sanctioned by epicor are unsupported, and could cause all
future related support to be billable. (e-mail Doug Williams, director of
Epicor development, to verify that statement if you so desire.) In this case
we're talking the entire vantage system being altered by this program, so
after this program is run, Epicor could legally say that all future support
from here on out in any module of vantage that refers to a part is billable
(not that they necessarily would, but they legally could). Estimated Cost
in the tens of thousands of dollars. Not to mention the fact that you still
have tens of thousands of cad drawings for which you are going to have
another firm design a search and replace program.
2) Manually reconstruct the database from scratch, printing out reports of
all the data in the system, and manually re-entering every transaction that
has ever occurred in vantage with the new part number, in the order that
they
occurred. This would require writing some extensive history reports, the
logic of some of which may require Progress 4GL reports. Money for you to
become more versed in 4GL, or to hire custom programming to do the job.
Since the code would be read only, the liability issues are minimal, but we
are talking at least six months to a year of database down time to do
manually recreate the database using new part numbers.
3) Leave the old part numbers in. mark them all inactive. For each new
style part number that you create that references an old part number, put
the old part number in the extended description. People would still have to
be familiar with both numbering schemes because there would be an interim
period in which transactions are taking place on old and new style part
numbers, unless you want to take the United States Division down for a few
weeks to a month do all the part conversions at once. At least all
customers would see from here on out are the Dutch part numbers.
4) Leave things the way they are, implement the new style part numbers for
NEW PARTS ONLY. Of course, say you have a thousand part Dutch part number
style assembly. That new assembly is the same as an existing assembly,
except for two parts, so you'll have a new style parent part number
referencing old style parts. Unacceptable. So you perform step number 3,
on just the parts in that assembly. In the long run, we're basically
talking a longer, drawn out version of step number 3, as more assemblies
become revised and reused. Everyone will have to be versed in both part
numbering schemes. More Confusion, especially for THE CUSTOMERS.
Play the nationality card. for example 'No US company in their right mind
would use two different part numbering schemes simultaneously, and no US
company worth their weight in salt would consider a company that has such
practices to be professional.'
5) Completely leave things the way they are, don't use new style part
numbers. Include the Dutch part number in as a reference in the extended
description, have them put the US style part numbers in their extended
descriptions (if their Novell DB even has extended descriptions) You guys
have to translate manuals, product descriptions, etc. all the time. Why not
live with the hassle of translating part numbers too?
6)Final Option - you could reccomend that while we're using a dutch
numbering scheme, why don't we use Dutch Descriptions, and manuals as well?
We'd cut the tech writing staff in half. The only expense would be teaching
all our employees, and all of our customers a new language.
I'd reccomend option (1) to the folks upstairs. Get a quote from custom
programming, and from a custom CAD programming place, to mass convert the
entire database and all the drawing files from one numbering scheme to
another. Send the bill to HQ, and tell them that's what it cost will be to
their new part numbering scheme. In the mean time, I'd take up Urban
Sanitatary Waste Management. It sounds like a much cleaner job to me.
$0.02 - Thaddeus
-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron A. Janish [mailto:cajanish@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:39 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Have you considered running away and joining the circus. If you are going
to have to deal with monkeys at least you would get to travel.
Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 02:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
OK, I'll give you guys the history here....
We are the US offspring of a Dutch company. The home office has the
general
attitude that A) whatever they do they have been doing it 10 years longer
than us and is therfore better, and B), anything that we do in the US is
"evil" and borderline stupid.
We produce exactly the same machines (although the US side is more
innovative and open to new technologies). Currently there is no
cooperation
or communication, but mgmt has figured out that we can combine our
purchasing efforts and save a few $$. It is easier when we deal with one
part number used by both companies for the same part. Also, they are
looking at future (global) expansion, and they want to create one cookie
cutter way of setting up shop easily in a (probably) low wage country.
This
meant for us that we are now forced to start buying and producing in
metric,
which is not that big of a deal, except when it comes to purchasing
sheetmetal and tubing. Worse, it also means that we have to adopt decades
old standards and procedures from the home office, since they are not
willing to use ours. Here comes the real kicker; when we proposed that
they start using Vantage instead of their old DOS based '80's MRP (which
can
not produce a single usable or customizable report, and for which no
support
is available), it was like we proposed to overthrow the Dutch government.
I
had envisioned Vantage running independently at both companies, but each
with Citrix access to the other, and some other goodies to boot. Right.
Of
course, they are running Novell 4 as their network OS, and, over their
dead
bodies, will allow anything as evil as a Microsoft product ever to enter
their building.
In short, US mgmt came back from the home office with their tails between
their legs, and I am at the end of the receiving line.....
And now you know the rest of the story.....
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 14:46
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Paul,
Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye
as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts
in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both
the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?
That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.
I love being part of this e-group.....
Paul
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Weight:
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>l/S=1705007183:HM/A=778020/rand=940024149>
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
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105_264> Lose 20 lbs by November 5th
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Height:
345678 ft 01234567891011in
Weight:
lbs. kg.
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/