Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING

If Epicor would do as most other software manufacturers do and
separate patches (fixes) from enhancements. If that was so, then the whole
patch availability issue would be much simpler to manage in my opinion.

Most other software manufacturers offer patches for free because if
you don't own the current revision of the software the current patch is
useless. Keeping old patches available for older versions should be an
obligation. Even if someone longer pays for current support, they should
be allowed to down load older bug fixes for the version of software they
own.

Like when you buy a car, same with software, you expect it to work
properly. Car manufacturers issue recalls (i.e. patches) even if the
warrantee has expired. Likewise, so should software manufacturers fix what
needs fixing ! Most do just not Epicor.

Separate enhancements from Quality of the product.

That's my story and I'm sticken to it....


Rick Joslin





Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:53:00 -0500
From: "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@...>
Subject: RE: Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING

Hmmmm....sounds like your issue with Epicor goes a lot deeper than plain
support or this message service. Sorry to hear it has been as frustrating
as it has. I know the legal hoops to protect intellectual property can
sometimes get in the way of common sense or good customer service. Leave it
to lawyers to mess up good relationships.

But the message I posted was a perfect example of an issue outside of
support and as a matter of fact someone at Epicor did respond off-list to me
about it. One of the people who originated this eGroup (pre-Yahoo) as a
user and who knows its value as a user to user exchange. I would be real
surprised now if someone else (his CAM?, mine would) did not contact Mike
Tonoyan if he can't get the patch via Support. On the other hand if someone
was not paying for support and got a patch emailed to them then I would
think Epicor would have a big issue with that, although if they were on
support at the time of the old patch in question I would also think they
would be entitled to it (licensed at the time).

-Todd C.
If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only on
this list to spy on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
receiving large files?

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


> I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
>
> As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
>
> I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> appreciate any assistance on this.
>
> Thanks
>
Mike is correct on EPICOR + Licensing + how public this list is ...

At the least ... any conversations should be ... private ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
Importance: High


If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only on
this list to spy on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
receiving large files?

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


> I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
>
> As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
>
> I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> appreciate any assistance on this.
>
> Thanks
>






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
9&media=atkins> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought about that. I was going to contact Epicor and asked them if it was
OK to send the file.
Support phone is busy. I'll try in a little while again. I am still having
Vantage Com Server problems.

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Podlin, Michael" <michael.podlin@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


> If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
> not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
> you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
> agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
> never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only
on
> this list to spy on us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
> receiving large files?
>
> Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
> All American Products Co.
> 1135 Aviation Place
> San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
> U. S. A.
> Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
> Fax: 818-898-2236
> E-mail: miket@...
> Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> > I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> > database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
> >
> > As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> > locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
> >
> > I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> > somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> > appreciate any assistance on this.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
I spoke to Vantage support about this. I think you need to contact Epicor
even if you do not have support with them.

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Anderson" <tanderson@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


> Mike is correct on EPICOR + Licensing + how public this list is ...
>
> At the least ... any conversations should be ... private ...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
> Importance: High
>
>
> If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
> not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
> you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
> agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
> never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only
on
> this list to spy on us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
> receiving large files?
>
> Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
> All American Products Co.
> 1135 Aviation Place
> San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
> U. S. A.
> Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
> Fax: 818-898-2236
> E-mail: miket@...
> Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> > I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> > database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
> >
> > As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> > locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
> >
> > I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> > somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> > appreciate any assistance on this.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
>
83:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
> 9&media=atkins> click here
>
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
> l/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
The license bit...yes clear it through Epicor.

But as for spying...I have to say there are many times when I have been contacted directly by someone at Epicor with an answer to an inquiry or a suggestion who to call at Epicor for deal with a problem. I think they prefer handling things through support so they get recorded but once in awhile if outside the normal support realm they will pitch in with help which I have appreciated very much.

-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
Importance: High


If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only on
this list to spy on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
receiving large files?

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


> I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
>
> As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
>
> I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> appreciate any assistance on this.
>
> Thanks
>






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30509&media=atkins> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is not an issue about support. I do not expect Epicor to support
questions or topics on this forum. What I have issues with and consider it
as spying is issues like this with licensing. If you noticed, no one from
Epicor has stepped in on this post a comment about it or recommend to Mike
Tonoyan not to send it. I bet he hasn't even received a personal e-mail or
call off line either. The only comments about this issue came from us
users. This list/group was put together to help everyone out (it is not an
Epicor support line), but if there is something like a legal issue, you
would think that at least one out of 60+ people would be considerate enough
to post a reply and ask not to do it. NO! They'll just forward the
information on to their lawyers and then you receive a FedEx letter
demanding that you correct the issue or they will prosecute you. My last
incident was due to something that I had posted on my web pages. When I did
contact Epicor to find out what specific issue it was they send me a screen
dump of a web page that I had deleted 6 months prior. If this was something
that they considered to be a legal issue, why did it take them 6 months or
more to do anything about it? And why didn't they try contacting me
directly first and asking like a civilized human being instead of
threatening me with a letter from a lawyer. We are not plotting against
Epicor, just trying to help each other out, like Mike had offered to Jim.
If the Epicor people on this list can not see this and do not wish to
provide this type of help (not support issues), maybe we need to take a vote
as to whether or not to allow them on the list.

my .02 cents worth.

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:51 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


The license bit...yes clear it through Epicor.

But as for spying...I have to say there are many times when I have been
contacted directly by someone at Epicor with an answer to an inquiry or a
suggestion who to call at Epicor for deal with a problem. I think they
prefer handling things through support so they get recorded but once in
awhile if outside the normal support realm they will pitch in with help
which I have appreciated very much.

-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
Importance: High


If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only on
this list to spy on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
receiving large files?

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


> I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
>
> As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
>
> I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> appreciate any assistance on this.
>
> Thanks
>






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
9&media=atkins> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hmmmm....sounds like your issue with Epicor goes a lot deeper than plain support or this message service. Sorry to hear it has been as frustrating as it has. I know the legal hoops to protect intellectual property can sometimes get in the way of common sense or good customer service. Leave it to lawyers to mess up good relationships.

But the message I posted was a perfect example of an issue outside of support and as a matter of fact someone at Epicor did respond off-list to me about it. One of the people who originated this eGroup (pre-Yahoo) as a user and who knows its value as a user to user exchange. I would be real surprised now if someone else (his CAM?, mine would) did not contact Mike Tonoyan if he can't get the patch via Support. On the other hand if someone was not paying for support and got a patch emailed to them then I would think Epicor would have a big issue with that, although if they were on support at the time of the old patch in question I would also think they would be entitled to it (licensed at the time).

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:24 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


This is not an issue about support. I do not expect Epicor to support
questions or topics on this forum. What I have issues with and consider it
as spying is issues like this with licensing. If you noticed, no one from
Epicor has stepped in on this post a comment about it or recommend to Mike
Tonoyan not to send it. I bet he hasn't even received a personal e-mail or
call off line either. The only comments about this issue came from us
users. This list/group was put together to help everyone out (it is not an
Epicor support line), but if there is something like a legal issue, you
would think that at least one out of 60+ people would be considerate enough
to post a reply and ask not to do it. NO! They'll just forward the
information on to their lawyers and then you receive a FedEx letter
demanding that you correct the issue or they will prosecute you. My last
incident was due to something that I had posted on my web pages. When I did
contact Epicor to find out what specific issue it was they send me a screen
dump of a web page that I had deleted 6 months prior. If this was something
that they considered to be a legal issue, why did it take them 6 months or
more to do anything about it? And why didn't they try contacting me
directly first and asking like a civilized human being instead of
threatening me with a letter from a lawyer. We are not plotting against
Epicor, just trying to help each other out, like Mike had offered to Jim.
If the Epicor people on this list can not see this and do not wish to
provide this type of help (not support issues), maybe we need to take a vote
as to whether or not to allow them on the list.

my .02 cents worth.

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:51 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


The license bit...yes clear it through Epicor.

But as for spying...I have to say there are many times when I have been
contacted directly by someone at Epicor with an answer to an inquiry or a
suggestion who to call at Epicor for deal with a problem. I think they
prefer handling things through support so they get recorded but once in
awhile if outside the normal support realm they will pitch in with help
which I have appreciated very much.

-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
Importance: High


If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only on
this list to spy on us.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
receiving large files?

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch


> I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
>
> As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
>
> I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> appreciate any assistance on this.
>
> Thanks
>






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

< http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/* http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
9&media=atkins> click here

< http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30529&media=atkins> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1754016/rand=799526224>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wait guys... wait!

I am Mike Tonoyan, I was the one who offered to help. I know how it feels to
have a database or a server down. Isn't it the worst nightmare that everyone
of us have? It was instinctive to jumping into offering help. In such cases
every minute counts, for our company it does any way. If I had the RIGHT to
send the patch and saved some time for the troubled man I would have. I
don't even know his name. Time was my main concern, but meanwhile as I said
before I had to contact tech support about another issue and thought I
should clear it with Epicor before I sent any thing to any one. Thanks for
warning me guys, any way. My thought also was that if some one is running a
licensed Vantage 4.0 even he doesn't have a support agreement it shouldn't
be a problem to get a patch for it.

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
U. S. A.
Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
Fax: 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING


> Hmmmm....sounds like your issue with Epicor goes a lot deeper than plain
support or this message service. Sorry to hear it has been as frustrating
as it has. I know the legal hoops to protect intellectual property can
sometimes get in the way of common sense or good customer service. Leave it
to lawyers to mess up good relationships.
>
> But the message I posted was a perfect example of an issue outside of
support and as a matter of fact someone at Epicor did respond off-list to me
about it. One of the people who originated this eGroup (pre-Yahoo) as a
user and who knows its value as a user to user exchange. I would be real
surprised now if someone else (his CAM?, mine would) did not contact Mike
Tonoyan if he can't get the patch via Support. On the other hand if someone
was not paying for support and got a patch emailed to them then I would
think Epicor would have a big issue with that, although if they were on
support at the time of the old patch in question I would also think they
would be entitled to it (licensed at the time).
>
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:24 AM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
>
>
> This is not an issue about support. I do not expect Epicor to support
> questions or topics on this forum. What I have issues with and consider
it
> as spying is issues like this with licensing. If you noticed, no one from
> Epicor has stepped in on this post a comment about it or recommend to Mike
> Tonoyan not to send it. I bet he hasn't even received a personal e-mail
or
> call off line either. The only comments about this issue came from us
> users. This list/group was put together to help everyone out (it is not
an
> Epicor support line), but if there is something like a legal issue, you
> would think that at least one out of 60+ people would be considerate
enough
> to post a reply and ask not to do it. NO! They'll just forward the
> information on to their lawyers and then you receive a FedEx letter
> demanding that you correct the issue or they will prosecute you. My last
> incident was due to something that I had posted on my web pages. When I
did
> contact Epicor to find out what specific issue it was they send me a
screen
> dump of a web page that I had deleted 6 months prior. If this was
something
> that they considered to be a legal issue, why did it take them 6 months or
> more to do anything about it? And why didn't they try contacting me
> directly first and asking like a civilized human being instead of
> threatening me with a letter from a lawyer. We are not plotting against
> Epicor, just trying to help each other out, like Mike had offered to Jim.
> If the Epicor people on this list can not see this and do not wish to
> provide this type of help (not support issues), maybe we need to take a
vote
> as to whether or not to allow them on the list.
>
> my .02 cents worth.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:51 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
>
>
> The license bit...yes clear it through Epicor.
>
> But as for spying...I have to say there are many times when I have been
> contacted directly by someone at Epicor with an answer to an inquiry or a
> suggestion who to call at Epicor for deal with a problem. I think they
> prefer handling things through support so they get recorded but once in
> awhile if outside the normal support realm they will pitch in with help
> which I have appreciated very much.
>
> -Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch - WARNING
> Importance: High
>
>
> If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of Epicor! I would suggest
> not sending the file. According to them, "it is licensed software and by
> you distributing it to someone else, you are in violation of your license
> agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that belong to this list and they
> never seem to provide any suggestions or advice. It seems they are only
on
> this list to spy on us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your e-mail service capabale of
> receiving large files?
>
> Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
> All American Products Co.
> 1135 Aviation Place
> San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
> U. S. A.
> Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
> Fax: 818-898-2236
> E-mail: miket@...
> Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimzerfass" <jimzerfass@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:23 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
>
>
> > I'm making an effort to resurrect on old Vantage 4.00 database. The
> > database was running under Vantage 4.00.904.
> >
> > As a result of a disk failure and my own stupidity, I can't seem to
> > locate the 4.00.904 patch file.
> >
> > I was hoping someone out there might have a copy of it floating about
> > somewhere. I believe the file name is pa400904.exe. I'd truly
> > appreciate any assistance on this.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> <
http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
> 83:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*
http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
> 9&media=atkins> click here
>
> <
http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
> l/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=101091023>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3052
9&media=atkins> click here
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1754016/rand=799526224>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
I originally published the request, not even
considering the license ramifications.

It was not a matter of a system being down and I
certainly appreciate the quick response to a call for
help. I wanted to recover the old vantage database to
research a problem (a legal issue I may add) and was
looking for a fast way out. Without getting Epicor
involved.

Alas... I've located the patch on a year-end backup
and all is right in my world. I'll be recovering the
database, hopefully finding an answer to my own legal
matter, without placing anyone in jeopardy.

Thanks to all who contributed on the topic and let's
stay on the right side of the law. I'd hate to see
anyone "do time" on my account.


--- Mike Tonoyan <miket@...>
wrote:
> Wait guys... wait!
>
> I am Mike Tonoyan, I was the one who offered to
> help. I know how it feels to
> have a database or a server down. Isn't it the worst
> nightmare that everyone
> of us have? It was instinctive to jumping into
> offering help. In such cases
> every minute counts, for our company it does any
> way. If I had the RIGHT to
> send the patch and saved some time for the troubled
> man I would have. I
> don't even know his name. Time was my main concern,
> but meanwhile as I said
> before I had to contact tech support about another
> issue and thought I
> should clear it with Epicor before I sent any thing
> to any one. Thanks for
> warning me guys, any way. My thought also was that
> if some one is running a
> licensed Vantage 4.0 even he doesn't have a support
> agreement it shouldn't
> be a problem to get a patch for it.
>
> Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
> All American Products Co.
> 1135 Aviation Place
> San Fernando, CA 91340-1460
> U. S. A.
> Tel.: 818-361-0059, Ext,: 246
> Fax: 818-898-2236
> E-mail: miket@...
> Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 6:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch -
> WARNING
>
>
> > Hmmmm....sounds like your issue with Epicor goes a
> lot deeper than plain
> support or this message service. Sorry to hear it
> has been as frustrating
> as it has. I know the legal hoops to protect
> intellectual property can
> sometimes get in the way of common sense or good
> customer service. Leave it
> to lawyers to mess up good relationships.
> >
> > But the message I posted was a perfect example of
> an issue outside of
> support and as a matter of fact someone at Epicor
> did respond off-list to me
> about it. One of the people who originated this
> eGroup (pre-Yahoo) as a
> user and who knows its value as a user to user
> exchange. I would be real
> surprised now if someone else (his CAM?, mine would)
> did not contact Mike
> Tonoyan if he can't get the patch via Support. On
> the other hand if someone
> was not paying for support and got a patch emailed
> to them then I would
> think Epicor would have a big issue with that,
> although if they were on
> support at the time of the old patch in question I
> would also think they
> would be entitled to it (licensed at the time).
> >
> > -Todd C.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Podlin, Michael
> [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:24 AM
> > To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch -
> WARNING
> >
> >
> > This is not an issue about support. I do not
> expect Epicor to support
> > questions or topics on this forum. What I have
> issues with and consider
> it
> > as spying is issues like this with licensing. If
> you noticed, no one from
> > Epicor has stepped in on this post a comment about
> it or recommend to Mike
> > Tonoyan not to send it. I bet he hasn't even
> received a personal e-mail
> or
> > call off line either. The only comments about
> this issue came from us
> > users. This list/group was put together to help
> everyone out (it is not
> an
> > Epicor support line), but if there is something
> like a legal issue, you
> > would think that at least one out of 60+ people
> would be considerate
> enough
> > to post a reply and ask not to do it. NO!
> They'll just forward the
> > information on to their lawyers and then you
> receive a FedEx letter
> > demanding that you correct the issue or they will
> prosecute you. My last
> > incident was due to something that I had posted on
> my web pages. When I
> did
> > contact Epicor to find out what specific issue it
> was they send me a
> screen
> > dump of a web page that I had deleted 6 months
> prior. If this was
> something
> > that they considered to be a legal issue, why did
> it take them 6 months or
> > more to do anything about it? And why didn't they
> try contacting me
> > directly first and asking like a civilized human
> being instead of
> > threatening me with a letter from a lawyer. We
> are not plotting against
> > Epicor, just trying to help each other out, like
> Mike had offered to Jim.
> > If the Epicor people on this list can not see this
> and do not wish to
> > provide this type of help (not support issues),
> maybe we need to take a
> vote
> > as to whether or not to allow them on the list.
> >
> > my .02 cents worth.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Todd Caughey
> [mailto:caugheyt@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:51 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch -
> WARNING
> >
> >
> > The license bit...yes clear it through Epicor.
> >
> > But as for spying...I have to say there are many
> times when I have been
> > contacted directly by someone at Epicor with an
> answer to an inquiry or a
> > suggestion who to call at Epicor for deal with a
> problem. I think they
> > prefer handling things through support so they get
> recorded but once in
> > awhile if outside the normal support realm they
> will pitch in with help
> > which I have appreciated very much.
> >
> > -Todd Caughey
> > Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Podlin, Michael
> [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:45 PM
> > To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch -
> WARNING
> > Importance: High
> >
> >
> > If you don't want to be hassled by the lawyers of
> Epicor! I would suggest
> > not sending the file. According to them, "it is
> licensed software and by
> > you distributing it to someone else, you are in
> violation of your license
> > agreement." There are 60+ Epicor people that
> belong to this list and they
> > never seem to provide any suggestions or advice.
> It seems they are only
> on
> > this list to spy on us.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Tonoyan
> [mailto:miket@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:33 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] Old Vantager 4.00 Patch
> >
> >
> > I do have it. It's over 13MB though. Is your
> e-mail service capabale of
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com