[off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire

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1
ONCE AGAIN THIS LIST HAS GIVEN EXCELLENT INFORMATION! You are all worth what we paid for Vantage (almost) just by what we save in consulting fees, I think. Thanks for your time.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Funte
To: vantage@egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:28 PM
Subject: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


What's the difference between Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire?
In a new installation, using existing hardware (Cat 5 with RJ-45
connectors), which is best?
Is there a compelling reason to use Cat5e or Cat6 for future
application in a new facilty?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
What's the difference between Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire?
In a new installation, using existing hardware (Cat 5 with RJ-45
connectors), which is best?
Is there a compelling reason to use Cat5e or Cat6 for future
application in a new facilty?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
3
Troy,

Can't help you on the Cat5e or Cat6 question - I've never heard of them.

Keep in mind that not all Cat5 wire is the the same. I like the Beldon
Super-Twist - each pair is fused together to keep the winds consistent.
I've had excellent success with this wire for basic office wiring. For
long haul wiring like backbone circuits ( 300-330 feet ) I like the Beldon
Media Twist wire. It's has the same fused pairs as the Super-Twist wire but
the cable itself is a flat ribbon with each pair in it's own "Track" to keep
the wires from twisting around each other. This wire has been rock solid
for long runs.

Do you need plenum or non-plenum wire ?

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:28 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


What's the difference between Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire?
In a new installation, using existing hardware (Cat 5 with RJ-45
connectors), which is best?
Is there a compelling reason to use Cat5e or Cat6 for future
application in a new facilty?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



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will work the next time you try it.)
4
Todd,


> Do you need plenum or non-plenum wire ?
>
That was my next question... what's the difference?

This relates to a previous thread last week concerning a 'wishlist'
for network installation in a new facility. A number of users
mentioned the cat5e and even cat6.

At this point, we want to look ahead and install wiring for network
and phone system use in a new facility.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
5
Cat 5 cable is a standard allowing for networking speeds up to a 100-Mbps
network.

Cat 5e or (Enhanced Cat5) is essentially the same cable but is designed for
full duplex Fast Ethernet networks. Cat5e has more rigid performance
requirements such as data loss, etc.

Cat6 is technically unavailable. No standard for Cat6 has been approved
yet, at least as far as I know. The proposed changes for Cat6 is that is
supports a frequency of 250Mhz vs 100Mhz on Cat5 which allows for more
bandwidth.


I suggest checking out www.blackbox.com as both and informational source and
a vendor, they have been great when I have had needs or questions.

Hope this helps some,


Jim Carnes
Kenlee Precision Corp.
jcarnes@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
Troy,

What is the environment of the new facility? Cat 5 is plenty for most
applications. I dont know what Cat5e is but Cat6 is fiber optic and very
expensive. Depending on the surrounding environment plenum cat5 is all most
companies will need. Plenum or non-plenum only means that the wire 'inside'
the blue cable is coated or not (non-plenum meaning not coated)

Hope this helps

Jim MacMillan
System Administrator
Sales/Marketing
Scientific Dimensions
800-523-6180
jimmac@...
7
Sorry for two replies, but I missed the plenum question.

The differenace between the two is:

Plenum grade cable is required when running in enclosed spaces (office drop
ceilings, interior walls etc). It is specifically coated to reduce toxins
when burned. Just as a tidbit of knowledge, the area above your ceiling and
below the roof or floor is called the plenum.

Non-Plenum grade is the same cable but not coated. I run non-plenum across
the shop where the cable is free hanging in the rafters and not enclosed and
plenum grade when running through the office areas.

Hope this helps,

Jim Carnes
Kenlee Precision Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 3:28 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


What's the difference between Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire?
In a new installation, using existing hardware (Cat 5 with RJ-45
connectors), which is best?
Is there a compelling reason to use Cat5e or Cat6 for future
application in a new facilty?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics


eGroups Sponsor


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Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above will work the next time you try it.)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
Troy,

Plenum grade wire is made with a non-poisonous plastic which costs about
twice as much as non-plenum grade wire. Dupont is the only company in the
world that makes the chemical and they charge tons of money for it.

A "Plenum" - is an air handling space. As in, if your heating system uses
the area above the ceiling as a cold air return then the entire space above
the ceiling is classified as a "Plenum" and any wiring that is run should be
"Plenum" grade wire.

So what the difference - if you put a match to non-plenum wire the plastic
sheathing will burn and release toxic fumes. If this fire is happening in
the ceiling where you can't see it and if your air handling system is
spreading those fumes throughout your building you could have a serious
problem on your hands. Plenum grade wire is supposed to be somewhat flame
retardant and when burned is not supposed to release toxic fumes.

Of course, everything I've just written might be hogwash ... It is, however,
the way my neighborhood electronics supply house explained it to me.

One related oddity is that if "Plenum" grade "Network" wire makes sense
doesn't the same hold true for power wires ?

Note also that if you run the wire through conduit I believe you are exempt
from this rule.

Bottom line ? Hire a bonded wiring installer and talk to your city's
inspectors to find out what the rules are in your area. Plenum wire costs
significantly more then non-plenum wire but may be required.

One last thought - We use black wire for power ... White wire for phones ...
Blue wire for basic network ... Red wire for "Backbone" wire ... and Yellow
wire for intercom circuits and all wires should be labeled on each end with
a unique number.

Hope this helps

Todd Anderson


-Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:43 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire



Todd,


> Do you need plenum or non-plenum wire ?
>
That was my next question... what's the difference?

This relates to a previous thread last week concerning a 'wishlist'
for network installation in a new facility. A number of users
mentioned the cat5e and even cat6.

At this point, we want to look ahead and install wiring for network
and phone system use in a new facility.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics




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9
Jim,

Excellent response to the question !

I currently use Beldon's Media twist Cat-5 for full duplex 100 mips and have
not had any problems with it.

Do you by any chance know what the technical difference is between Cat-5 and
Cat-5e ???

Todd Anderson


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Carnes [mailto:jcarnes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:50 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


Cat 5 cable is a standard allowing for networking speeds up to a 100-Mbps
network.

Cat 5e or (Enhanced Cat5) is essentially the same cable but is designed for
full duplex Fast Ethernet networks. Cat5e has more rigid performance
requirements such as data loss, etc.

Cat6 is technically unavailable. No standard for Cat6 has been approved
yet, at least as far as I know. The proposed changes for Cat6 is that is
supports a frequency of 250Mhz vs 100Mhz on Cat5 which allows for more
bandwidth.


I suggest checking out www.blackbox.com as both and informational source and
a vendor, they have been great when I have had needs or questions.

Hope this helps some,


Jim Carnes
Kenlee Precision Corp.
jcarnes@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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10
Todd,

I get these specifications directly from Black Box, so here goes. And I
confess I have no idea what the "NEXT" items refer to. :)

CAT 5 CAT5e CAT6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Frequency 100 100 250
Attenuation 22dB 22dB 19dB
Impedance 100ohms Same Same
NEXT (?) 32.3dB 35.3 dB 44.3dB
PS-NEXT no spec 32.3 dB 42.3dB
ELFEXT no spec 23.8 dB 27.8 dB
PS-ELFEXT no spec 20.8 dB 24.8 dB
Return Loss no spec 20.1 dB 20.1 dB
Delay Skew 45 ns Same Same



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
A couple of good web sources for cabling info:

http://www.siemon.com/ (particularly "white papers")

http://www.anixter.com/home.htm ("technical library" and other stuff)

-Wayne
12
Todd Anderson wrote:
<<< Plenum grade wire is made with a non-poisonous plastic which costs about
twice as much as non-plenum grade wire. Dupont is the only company in the
world that makes the chemical and they charge tons of money for it. >>>

Years ago I was told the coating is Teflon, a DuPont product, and thus the
cost difference. We found it was cheaper to conduit short plenum runs in
the office and non-plenum wire the plant (as was suggested). Also, we have
used all Cat5e for 100Mbps which is plenty fast for 60 Vantage and other
users. Switch loads seldom exceed 20% at that speed. Although I don't
foresee a lot of multimedia and video in the plant I was told we could
probably stretch Gigabit Ethernet out of it, if we needed it anyway. Cost
difference between 5 and 5e was very small so 5e was an easy choice.

-Todd C.
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
13
NEXT = Near End Cross Talk. Which is unwanted signal transmission from one
pair
of conductors to another pair of conductors.
PSNEXT = Power Sum NEXT. Which is the measurement of crosstalk when
transmission is placed on three of the four pairs.
ELFEXT = Equal Level Far End Cross Talk. Which is the crosstalk at the far
end or away from the signal source.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Carnes [mailto:jcarnes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 4:07 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


Todd,

I get these specifications directly from Black Box, so here goes. And I
confess I have no idea what the "NEXT" items refer to. :)

CAT 5 CAT5e CAT6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Frequency 100 100 250
Attenuation 22dB 22dB 19dB
Impedance 100ohms Same Same
NEXT (?) 32.3dB 35.3 dB 44.3dB
PS-NEXT no spec 32.3 dB 42.3dB
ELFEXT no spec 23.8 dB 27.8 dB
PS-ELFEXT no spec 20.8 dB 24.8 dB
Return Loss no spec 20.1 dB 20.1 dB
Delay Skew 45 ns Same Same



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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14
Thanks for the info Jeff ...

It's scary sometimes how much information is available from the Vantage
list. I just wish I could download all of it at one time and then wave my
hands over it and say "Ahhhhhh-Ummmmmmmmm" and absorb it.

:-)

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jaske, Jeff [mailto:jjaske@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 3:31 PM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


NEXT = Near End Cross Talk. Which is unwanted signal transmission from one
pair
of conductors to another pair of conductors.
PSNEXT = Power Sum NEXT. Which is the measurement of crosstalk when
transmission is placed on three of the four pairs.
ELFEXT = Equal Level Far End Cross Talk. Which is the crosstalk at the far
end or away from the signal source.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Carnes [mailto:jcarnes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 4:07 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [off topic] Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire


Todd,

I get these specifications directly from Black Box, so here goes. And I
confess I have no idea what the "NEXT" items refer to. :)

CAT 5 CAT5e CAT6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Frequency 100 100 250
Attenuation 22dB 22dB 19dB
Impedance 100ohms Same Same
NEXT (?) 32.3dB 35.3 dB 44.3dB
PS-NEXT no spec 32.3 dB 42.3dB
ELFEXT no spec 23.8 dB 27.8 dB
PS-ELFEXT no spec 20.8 dB 24.8 dB
Return Loss no spec 20.1 dB 20.1 dB
Delay Skew 45 ns Same Same



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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15
In addition to all the comments made, don't forget the local building
inspector's input. We are located in Rochester Hills, MI and the
building dept. would not hesitate one second to order us to yank and
replace non-plenum grade cable.

I use blue for net, white for phone, yellow for dsl and red for fire
alarm.

I also color code the actual jacks in the wall plates as white=phone,
orange=net, black=fax/modem (not my choices-Lucent said that this is a
loose standard.

I would also get the angled jack if I had it to do all over, The
straight projection of the cable from the wall occasionally gets smashed
but the uncaring.

Good luck with your project, and make sure you have fun!!

Rick Gors
MIS
Osco

Troy Funte wrote:
>
> What's the difference between Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 wire?
> In a new installation, using existing hardware (Cat 5 with RJ-45
> connectors), which is best?
> Is there a compelling reason to use Cat5e or Cat6 for future
> application in a new facilty?
>
> Troy Funte
> Liberty Electronics
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files, please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)