Todd,
Maintenance revenue is the cash cow for companies like Epicor. Sales of new installs (or version upgrades) certainly add to revenue numbers for them - but the long term value of ongoing maintenance (of what they hope to be an increasing user base) is gold to them.
Self assess the value you feel you get from maintenance & compare it to the ongoing cost - and you'll likely see it is nearly pure profit for them (as - let's face it: 'support' is not Epicor's strong suit... Low ball new install pricing to win the sale & increase the ongoing maintenance revenue is their clear focus.)
Everything being negotiable - being aware of the above gives you some leverage.
They will counter that your 'offer' to freeze on 8 405 just makes supporting you harder over time (& that is true: Even Microsoft stops supporting software when it reaches a certain age).
Scan thru your inbox & you'll see a number of consultants in this very group - but they aren't going to have sourcecode to keep you running (even if 405 is stable enough for you now) as inevitable hardware, OS, Progress middleware, etc go through upgrade cycles (perhaps driven by non-Vantage needs).
If you're internal IT can handle it, buy the SDK & other tools you'll need to keep 405 running for, say, at least 7 yrs.
If not (& I think few would consider it) - Try negotiating.
With the severity of the recession, they surely lost users as some companies just didn't make it. I know others dropped support as they got slammed mid pilot stage & just never went live (staying on their legacy systems).
They don't want to lose you entirely so, if you can't survive while continuing to pay support: Everything is negotiable.
They will play serious hardball if you try - but if you go in armed with facts (and show your company's long term survival requires cost reduction everywhere) - you can play hardball too.
If they don't care if you survive, do you really want to stay with them anyway?
ERP has largely been a promise unfulfilled anyway. Focus on internal process (and people skill) improvement (as visually managable as possible: Lean, kanban, etc) & become less dependant on ERP magic bullets (that have largely proven to be duds) & you may be able to get away with less.
(My 2 cents)
Rob
--- Original Message ---
From:"todd8800" <todd.sweet@...>
Sent:Tue 7/20/10 5:22 pm
To:vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subj:[Vantage] Maintenance Renewal
I am looking for some ideas for getting support for Epicor version 8.03.405 if we decide to discontinue the Epicor maintenance plan. We have a large number of users, so the amount that Epicor wants for maintenance is extremely high. We are unlikely to upgrade for many many years (if ever) since it took a couple of years to get stable on 8.03, so what we really need is support, especially if something catastrphic happens (and it did once already).
Have you had good luck getting supported through an independent consultant on a pay per call basis? If so, please provide a referral.
Has anyone got Epicor to provide a Support Plan without the maintenance element (no upgrades)?
If any of you use Open4 for payroll and HR, have you contracted with Open4 directly for support and maintenance of that product?
Thanks.
Maintenance revenue is the cash cow for companies like Epicor. Sales of new installs (or version upgrades) certainly add to revenue numbers for them - but the long term value of ongoing maintenance (of what they hope to be an increasing user base) is gold to them.
Self assess the value you feel you get from maintenance & compare it to the ongoing cost - and you'll likely see it is nearly pure profit for them (as - let's face it: 'support' is not Epicor's strong suit... Low ball new install pricing to win the sale & increase the ongoing maintenance revenue is their clear focus.)
Everything being negotiable - being aware of the above gives you some leverage.
They will counter that your 'offer' to freeze on 8 405 just makes supporting you harder over time (& that is true: Even Microsoft stops supporting software when it reaches a certain age).
Scan thru your inbox & you'll see a number of consultants in this very group - but they aren't going to have sourcecode to keep you running (even if 405 is stable enough for you now) as inevitable hardware, OS, Progress middleware, etc go through upgrade cycles (perhaps driven by non-Vantage needs).
If you're internal IT can handle it, buy the SDK & other tools you'll need to keep 405 running for, say, at least 7 yrs.
If not (& I think few would consider it) - Try negotiating.
With the severity of the recession, they surely lost users as some companies just didn't make it. I know others dropped support as they got slammed mid pilot stage & just never went live (staying on their legacy systems).
They don't want to lose you entirely so, if you can't survive while continuing to pay support: Everything is negotiable.
They will play serious hardball if you try - but if you go in armed with facts (and show your company's long term survival requires cost reduction everywhere) - you can play hardball too.
If they don't care if you survive, do you really want to stay with them anyway?
ERP has largely been a promise unfulfilled anyway. Focus on internal process (and people skill) improvement (as visually managable as possible: Lean, kanban, etc) & become less dependant on ERP magic bullets (that have largely proven to be duds) & you may be able to get away with less.
(My 2 cents)
Rob
--- Original Message ---
From:"todd8800" <todd.sweet@...>
Sent:Tue 7/20/10 5:22 pm
To:vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subj:[Vantage] Maintenance Renewal
I am looking for some ideas for getting support for Epicor version 8.03.405 if we decide to discontinue the Epicor maintenance plan. We have a large number of users, so the amount that Epicor wants for maintenance is extremely high. We are unlikely to upgrade for many many years (if ever) since it took a couple of years to get stable on 8.03, so what we really need is support, especially if something catastrphic happens (and it did once already).
Have you had good luck getting supported through an independent consultant on a pay per call basis? If so, please provide a referral.
Has anyone got Epicor to provide a Support Plan without the maintenance element (no upgrades)?
If any of you use Open4 for payroll and HR, have you contracted with Open4 directly for support and maintenance of that product?
Thanks.