IBM hard drive problems (2 cents)

Yahoo Archive
1
I've worked with desktops from the old days, early 80's. I've gained
profound dislike for IBM equipment. In those days they were trying to
dominate like some nameless software companies we know. I've always found
IBM's and Compaq's Extra difficult to work with because of their corporate
propriartary components. Maxtor hard drives have always been the most
reliable. WD as a second choice. Fujitsu as a third choice.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH




-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Parmley [mailto:bob@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


Wayne
Here is one confirmation for IBM hard disk problem. I bought IBM NetVista
desktop with W2k installed in 11/01. Hard disk failed within 2 weeks.
Could not even boot up. Computer came already loaded WITHOUT software CD.
IBM promptly sent hard disk but no software. It took me several more days
to finally receive a "recovery disk". All has worked fine since.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Cox
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:40 PM
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit
board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot
spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be
run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would
be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox



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2
The hard drive has apparently failed on the the PC of our CEO. Fortunately
he listened at least a little when I told him to backup regularly. The last
backup was 2 months ago. I know there are tools to automate this but
resources ($) have not been granted for it. Good chance they will be now.
;) In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
Todd,

I've used Ontrack http://www.ontrack.com/ on 3 occassions... roughly $500-$900 each time; with as much as 85% recovery success (results vary).
Also, if the drive is mechanically sound and you've simply lost the partition; you can boot from a startup diskette and run FDISK /MBR (rewrites the Master Boot Record)...
Additionally, I've had great success adding problem drives as a slave drive on another system then running Tiramisu (Ontrack's data recovery tool) and recovered complete volumes with 100% success.

good luck, Lee


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:44 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] Hard Drive Data Recovery Services


The hard drive has apparently failed on the the PC of our CEO. Fortunately
he listened at least a little when I told him to backup regularly. The last
backup was 2 months ago. I know there are tools to automate this but
resources ($) have not been granted for it. Good chance they will be now.
;) In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
4
At 09:43 AM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
>recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
>off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
>the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

I had a 3.0GB drive in a sales guy's PC die a few years ago. (An actual
head crash with media damage judging from the noise) We contacted OnTrack,
and shipped it out to them. For a $150 "evaluation fee" they emailed back
a report of all the files that were salvageable. Results were impressive,
probably 60% of the drive was recoverable, but it happened to be mostly the
program files and not much of the data. Had we opted to go through with
it, they wanted $1500 (ouch!) to burn a CD of the files. Kinda
aggravating, because I assume at that point the data had already been
extracted to safe storage. $1500 for a couple CDs seemed a little steep.

What model drive is it? If you suspect the electronics (and are an
adventuresome techie) and have an identical drive handy, you might try
swapping the circuit card.

-Wayne Cox
Twenty Three -- Information Technology Consulting
828-685-2338
5
Todd,
At techrepublic there is a file "200 ways to revive a hard drive". You may
want to try some of them it could save your company some dough. Most of them
are the classic freeze it, drop it and hit it routines, but there are
several more.


www.techrepublic.com

I suppose it would be alright I could email the file directly to you if you
wanted it.


Jeff Blair
System Administrator
C.N.C. Programmer


Advanced Manufacturing Technologies, Inc.
Visit our web page: www.advmantec.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:44 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] Hard Drive Data Recovery Services


The hard drive has apparently failed on the the PC of our CEO. Fortunately
he listened at least a little when I told him to backup regularly. The last
backup was 2 months ago. I know there are tools to automate this but
resources ($) have not been granted for it. Good chance they will be now.
;) In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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6
I looked into this a while back and it was very expensive. I was thinking a
couple hundred bucks, but they were in another world.
Have you tried some of the "home remedies"?
I came from the repair business, so I know some tricks that might get you
what you need. (had to recover data from a plant manager's computer a while
back, his last backup was when I installed the computer). If you know
exactly what you need and where to find it, you might be able to do this
yourself.
You are welcome to contact me on or off list and I will be happy to discuss
some of the options for "self recovery".
Either way, good luck.

Aaron Hoyt
Information Systems Manager
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:aaron.hoyt@...>


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:51 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] Hard Drive Data Recovery Services


The hard drive has apparently failed on the the PC of our CEO. Fortunately
he listened at least a little when I told him to backup regularly. The last
backup was 2 months ago. I know there are tools to automate this but
resources ($) have not been granted for it. Good chance they will be now.
;) In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
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7
Thanks, I do know a number of tricks that are useful if the drive is visible
to the BIOS but at the moment this is not the case. All the obvious things
(cables, power supply leads, etc...) have no effect. I have some software
tools but none of these will work until I can at least see the drive in the
BIOS setup. For sure I will try everything I can before asking the CEO if
he wants to spend a grand or more to maybe recover the last two months of
files. At the moment battle #1 is to install a new drive as "master" and
get the OS on to it.

Thanks to all for the tips.
-Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Hoyt [mailto:aaron@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] Hard Drive Data Recovery Services


I looked into this a while back and it was very expensive. I was thinking a
couple hundred bucks, but they were in another world.
Have you tried some of the "home remedies"?
I came from the repair business, so I know some tricks that might get you
what you need. (had to recover data from a plant manager's computer a while
back, his last backup was when I installed the computer). If you know
exactly what you need and where to find it, you might be able to do this
yourself.
You are welcome to contact me on or off list and I will be happy to discuss
some of the options for "self recovery".
Either way, good luck.

Aaron Hoyt
Information Systems Manager
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:aaron.hoyt@...>


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:51 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] Hard Drive Data Recovery Services


The hard drive has apparently failed on the the PC of our CEO. Fortunately
he listened at least a little when I told him to backup regularly. The last
backup was 2 months ago. I know there are tools to automate this but
resources ($) have not been granted for it. Good chance they will be now.
;) In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has experience with any data
recovery services and roughly how much they charge to try to get the data
off the platters. I suspect this is not a head crash situation but rather
the drive electronics gone bad so maybe the data can still be recovered.

Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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8
Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed
across the PCB and actually melted part of the board. As it happens new
drive I bought is also Quantum (Maxtor now) so maybe circuit board on it
will work on new drive. I might risk the $125 new drive to try to revive
the old and save the data. I've had drives crash heads before or freeze up
but have never seen a chip blow/burn so badly. If I can't revive it OnTrack
gets a crack at it. Thanks again for the help.
-Todd C.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox
10
I'm running their 15K SCSI drives without a problem. We also only buy IBM
Desktops and so far so good. Couldn't be happier with them.
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corp.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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11
I have some older IBM SCSI's installed in older clones. So far, all but one
has developed the same problem where the drive will still run but will
develop a high-pitch "screaming" sound. Consequently, I replace them with
other makes. The computers run 24/7.

Terry L. Williams I.S. Manager Chipsco, Inc. 9936 Liberty St. Ext.
Meadville, PA 16335
p.814-333-6331 x236 f.814-337-2548 c.814-671-8650 tlw@...
<mailto:tlw@...> www.chipsco.com <http://www.chipsco.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems

At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
We had four drives we bought at the same time and 3 of the four died
within 3 months. Not a very good track record. We also ran into some
problems with Western Digital 40GB drives and certain ASUS motherboards.
The motherboards were all IDE Raid and AMD Chipsets. For some reason the
motherboard would not recognize the drive at all. This problem was
confirmed by our parts distributor. Of course, they didn't bring it to
our attention when we bought the drives.

Mark Charamut
Caesar Development

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit
board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot
spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG

reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be
run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would
be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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13
I'm pretty sure I just read something about this in last month's Maximum PC
consumer investigation section (aka The WatchDog). I'll check when I get
home tonight and let you know.

Brian

> -----Original Message-----
> I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are
> having BIG
> reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story
> yet, but it's
> from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
> responded "they're a personal computer class device and not
> made to be run more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]
14
I've had numbers of problems with Western Digital drives as well.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Charamut
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


We had four drives we bought at the same time and 3 of the four died
within 3 months. Not a very good track record. We also ran into some
problems with Western Digital 40GB drives and certain ASUS motherboards.
The motherboards were all IDE Raid and AMD Chipsets. For some reason the
motherboard would not recognize the drive at all. This problem was
confirmed by our parts distributor. Of course, they didn't bring it to
our attention when we bought the drives.

Mark Charamut
Caesar Development

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit
board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot
spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG

reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be
run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would
be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15
At 05:24 PM 4/22/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>I've had numbers of problems with Western Digital drives as well.

WD has had their share of problems. BUT... they've always been
forthcoming about it, and published documentation or utilities to identify
bad drives. If the IBM story is true, then it seems like they're going the
"cover up" route. Their drives have been the best performers for the last
couple years, and I've bought a bunch thinking I was getting legendary IBM
reliability too.

A couple of you mentioned SCSI drives -- the story goes that only IDEs are
affected on this one. Some of the mechanicals are common to both types,
but the heat problem is just in the IDE's PCB.

-Wayne Cox
16
as a sidenote to the IBM drive problem I read that IBM is getting out of the HardDrive business... selling off 70% to Hitachi. Also, I had also read that IBM's newer high capacity drives 70gb and up are not recommended to be runn more than 8 hours at a time.... I guess their MTBF hours are not consecutive hours! heheh I always referred to the "DeskStar" drives as 'DeathStars' :(
http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/fixup.pl?story=http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/04/17/020417hnimbhit.xml&dctag=enduserhardware


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
17
Wayne
Here is one confirmation for IBM hard disk problem. I bought IBM NetVista desktop with W2k installed in 11/01. Hard disk failed within 2 weeks. Could not even boot up. Computer came already loaded WITHOUT software CD. IBM promptly sent hard disk but no software. It took me several more days to finally receive a "recovery disk". All has worked fine since.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Cox
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:40 PM
Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems


At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit board
>looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot spewed

On a related note...

I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are having BIG
reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but it's
from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to be run
more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]

If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this would be a
good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?

-Wayne Cox



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18
I found these links while searching for more info on the problem:
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/28/010828hnibmdiskupdate.xml

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,67608,00.asp

> -----Original Message-----
> I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are
> having BIG
> reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story
> yet, but it's
> from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and IBM
> responded "they're a personal computer class device and not
> made to be run more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]
19
I have had the problem of the motherboard not recognizing large
(40GB) WD drives. The work around is to go into the BIOS, turn off
auto detect for the IDE device and lie to it. Specify that the drive
is a 2GB (4092 cylinders / 63 sectors per track, if I remember
correctly). Then when the machine boots up, it will see all 40GB.
This info came from WD on the back of the installation instruction
sheet, so it should be on their site somewhere.
Hope this helps.

John Elder
Penn State Tool & Die

--- In vantage@y..., "Mark Charamut" <mrprogress@C...> wrote:
> We had four drives we bought at the same time and 3 of the four died
> within 3 months. Not a very good track record. We also ran into some
> problems with Western Digital 40GB drives and certain ASUS
motherboards.
> The motherboards were all IDE Raid and AMD Chipsets. For some
reason the
> motherboard would not recognize the drive at all. This problem was
> confirmed by our parts distributor. Of course, they didn't bring it
to
> our attention when we bought the drives.
>
> Mark Charamut
> Caesar Development
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@d...]
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: vantage@y...
> Subject: [Vantage] IBM hard drive problems
>
>
> At 01:33 PM 4/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Update: Took the drive out (Quantum Fireball) - One chip on curcuit
> board
> >looks like Mt. St. Helens erupted. Big crater and smudge of soot
> spewed
>
> On a related note...
>
> I heard IBM's IDE hard drives made in the last year or so are
having BIG
>
> reliability problems. Haven't located a confirming story yet, but
it's
> from a reliable source. Supposedly they have heat problems, and
IBM
> responded "they're a personal computer class device and not made to
be
> run
> more than 10 hours a day" [ha!]
>
> If you have them in any critical machines, some research on this
would
> be a
> good idea. Has anyone heard similar things?
>
> -Wayne Cox