Good Day Chris:
I essentially agree that the computer system cannot become your goal, but there are new realities.
I have always told my two IT techs that the purpose of the network was to server the company, not be a IT test bed with all the latest bells and whistles.
However, two things have changed. Every aspect of the company, by way of ERP, is now dependent on the network so it is now more critical to a manufacturer then any Machine tool. Also, Management is demanding more and more: More reports, faster month end closes, more detail - more detail- more detail, Blackberries, handhelds for ERP, Fax-to-email solutions, pretty reports, emails to customers, checks and balances, e-commerce, email blasts, personalized customer communication, etc. It is now IT that has to support the phone system because it is too complex for HR. IT must figure out Long Distance Service because of the T1\ISP\computer interface.
And down time is not allowed. 24/7 because of overseas business units.
So your view, which is also mine, must adapt to the realities of 2010. Unfortunately, many in Upper Management think that all of this is Out-of-the-Box and everybody does it - so they do not perceive a need for bigger IT.
On the other hand, from management's point of view, they have the problem of competing with companies that have stepped up to higher IT Tech which can make the more efficient; but, at the same time see more and more of their assets going to support our glorified adding machines.
Operative ideas:
Change or die.
Modernize or disappear.
Lead or fall behind.
China, not Michigan, is now your competitor.
You have to spend money to make money.
IT spending is the greatest expense, after real estate and people, for most companies now.
Welcome to the brave new world.
len.hartka@...
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
I thnk I may disagree a little here.
98% of our calls logged with support are genuine problems with the Epicor product. Unless we trained up somebody to understand every single working of the product (in which case they would probably uproot and move on to a job where they will get lots mor money).
Unless you are wanting a lot more out of Epicor (by attacking the SQL from the back end - which we dont want), then it is pointless us having 2-3 people with a full understanding of everything that makes Epicor work.
Granted, people need good IT support and infrastructure in place, but at the end of the day our business is doing what we do, not running fixing a computer software. I dont think there is any harm in having people who know what they are doing with servers/PCs/epicor, but a line has to be drawn at some point, before the company changes into an IT company instead of a manufacturing company.
________________________________
From: Vic Drecchio <vic.drecchio@... <mailto:vic.drecchio%40timco.aero> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 14 January, 2010 17:44:12
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
Jared, that's hilarious... and you are so true. You have no idea how
many Vantage customers out there are just like that: With no IT
department.
I find it amusing that a company would spend the significant dollars on
an enterprise IT software system such as Vantage and NOT invest money in
their IT staffing to support and evolve the system.
Frankly, I think that's one of the reasons why Support gets such a
lashing all the time from customers. These non-IT staffed companies
have this belief that Epicor Support is there in lieu of an IT dept or
resource. Epicor Support isn't there to serve in an Admin capacity for
a customer.
It's like buying a mega yacht and not hiring a crew to maintain her.
"Duh"
When I consulted with Epicor I arrived many times at a customer site to
find the server in the breakroom on the counter next to the coffee pot
on the same circuit and it was 80 degrees in the breakroom. Or the
server is out on the shop floor "safely" tucked into a corner somewhere
under a thick coating of shop dust/dirt.
But this ultimately may not be the customers' fault. I think sometimes
Epicor Sales sells Vantage as an entity that requires little or no
admin.
If a customer is very simple in their business model and is small in
user-count, then perhaps you could get away without a staffer. Less
than 10 or 15 users... *maybe*.
It's only the ignorance of the company's management that believes they
can limp along without IT. You buy something like this you should
budget for a resource to provide admin and future enhancements for your
business. Otherwise, if you can't afford to do this, then wait until
you can.
-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Jared Allmond
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:11 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
+1 on everything Vic said. If you have a knowledgeable person, SQL is
great. I met some people at Perspectives 09 whose companies run the
Progress version who don't even have an IT department. A Vantage
'superuser' acts like a sys admin. If you are in this scenario I
wouldn't recommend going to SQL. The ability to make SQL Views is very
useful and speedy compared to BAQs. I personally try to avoid triggers,
but to each his own. You do need plenty of horsepower on a SQL box, and
the name of the game is disk I/O. Don't skimp on your storage system.
I will make a small amendment to Vic's statement that Progress also
runs. Well it does and doesn't. The Progress AppServer still runs (as
it would on either version) but if you configure things properly you
don't need to run the Progress DB (by default it does run). Vic is
correct that the DB is just a pass-thru to the SQL tables.
____________ _________ __
Jared Allmond
IT Systems Administrator
Wright Coating Technologies
jallmond@wrightcoat ing.com<mailto:jallmond@wrightcoat ing.com>
voice: 269.344.8195
direct: 269.341.4353
fax: 269.344.3007
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------ --------- --------- ------
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This e-mail and any attachments may contain proprietary and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail or at 410-472-2900 and then delete the message without using, disseminating, or copying this message or any portion thereof. With e-mail communications you are urged to protect against viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I essentially agree that the computer system cannot become your goal, but there are new realities.
I have always told my two IT techs that the purpose of the network was to server the company, not be a IT test bed with all the latest bells and whistles.
However, two things have changed. Every aspect of the company, by way of ERP, is now dependent on the network so it is now more critical to a manufacturer then any Machine tool. Also, Management is demanding more and more: More reports, faster month end closes, more detail - more detail- more detail, Blackberries, handhelds for ERP, Fax-to-email solutions, pretty reports, emails to customers, checks and balances, e-commerce, email blasts, personalized customer communication, etc. It is now IT that has to support the phone system because it is too complex for HR. IT must figure out Long Distance Service because of the T1\ISP\computer interface.
And down time is not allowed. 24/7 because of overseas business units.
So your view, which is also mine, must adapt to the realities of 2010. Unfortunately, many in Upper Management think that all of this is Out-of-the-Box and everybody does it - so they do not perceive a need for bigger IT.
On the other hand, from management's point of view, they have the problem of competing with companies that have stepped up to higher IT Tech which can make the more efficient; but, at the same time see more and more of their assets going to support our glorified adding machines.
Operative ideas:
Change or die.
Modernize or disappear.
Lead or fall behind.
China, not Michigan, is now your competitor.
You have to spend money to make money.
IT spending is the greatest expense, after real estate and people, for most companies now.
Welcome to the brave new world.
len.hartka@...
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Thompson
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
I thnk I may disagree a little here.
98% of our calls logged with support are genuine problems with the Epicor product. Unless we trained up somebody to understand every single working of the product (in which case they would probably uproot and move on to a job where they will get lots mor money).
Unless you are wanting a lot more out of Epicor (by attacking the SQL from the back end - which we dont want), then it is pointless us having 2-3 people with a full understanding of everything that makes Epicor work.
Granted, people need good IT support and infrastructure in place, but at the end of the day our business is doing what we do, not running fixing a computer software. I dont think there is any harm in having people who know what they are doing with servers/PCs/epicor, but a line has to be drawn at some point, before the company changes into an IT company instead of a manufacturing company.
________________________________
From: Vic Drecchio <vic.drecchio@... <mailto:vic.drecchio%40timco.aero> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 14 January, 2010 17:44:12
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
Jared, that's hilarious... and you are so true. You have no idea how
many Vantage customers out there are just like that: With no IT
department.
I find it amusing that a company would spend the significant dollars on
an enterprise IT software system such as Vantage and NOT invest money in
their IT staffing to support and evolve the system.
Frankly, I think that's one of the reasons why Support gets such a
lashing all the time from customers. These non-IT staffed companies
have this belief that Epicor Support is there in lieu of an IT dept or
resource. Epicor Support isn't there to serve in an Admin capacity for
a customer.
It's like buying a mega yacht and not hiring a crew to maintain her.
"Duh"
When I consulted with Epicor I arrived many times at a customer site to
find the server in the breakroom on the counter next to the coffee pot
on the same circuit and it was 80 degrees in the breakroom. Or the
server is out on the shop floor "safely" tucked into a corner somewhere
under a thick coating of shop dust/dirt.
But this ultimately may not be the customers' fault. I think sometimes
Epicor Sales sells Vantage as an entity that requires little or no
admin.
If a customer is very simple in their business model and is small in
user-count, then perhaps you could get away without a staffer. Less
than 10 or 15 users... *maybe*.
It's only the ignorance of the company's management that believes they
can limp along without IT. You buy something like this you should
budget for a resource to provide admin and future enhancements for your
business. Otherwise, if you can't afford to do this, then wait until
you can.
-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Jared Allmond
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:11 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicor 9 and Moving from Progress to MS SQL
+1 on everything Vic said. If you have a knowledgeable person, SQL is
great. I met some people at Perspectives 09 whose companies run the
Progress version who don't even have an IT department. A Vantage
'superuser' acts like a sys admin. If you are in this scenario I
wouldn't recommend going to SQL. The ability to make SQL Views is very
useful and speedy compared to BAQs. I personally try to avoid triggers,
but to each his own. You do need plenty of horsepower on a SQL box, and
the name of the game is disk I/O. Don't skimp on your storage system.
I will make a small amendment to Vic's statement that Progress also
runs. Well it does and doesn't. The Progress AppServer still runs (as
it would on either version) but if you configure things properly you
don't need to run the Progress DB (by default it does run). Vic is
correct that the DB is just a pass-thru to the SQL tables.
____________ _________ __
Jared Allmond
IT Systems Administrator
Wright Coating Technologies
jallmond@wrightcoat ing.com<mailto:jallmond@wrightcoat ing.com>
voice: 269.344.8195
direct: 269.341.4353
fax: 269.344.3007
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------ --------- --------- ------
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This e-mail and any attachments may contain proprietary and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail or at 410-472-2900 and then delete the message without using, disseminating, or copying this message or any portion thereof. With e-mail communications you are urged to protect against viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]