As a user (and builder) of dually boxes, you have a predicament that you
need to solve in regards to the purchase of a second 866 processor. Both
CPU's need to be from the same build lot, otherwise the voltage can be off
between the two and that will cause problems with multi-threading tasks. Go
buy two PIII 933's that are from the same lot, they should be cheap enough
now. Once they're in, you can overclock them to just north of 1gHz without
extra cooling or any worries about thermal damage.
Good Luck,
Jeff Behringer
President
Behr Technologies
www.behrtech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.
[mailto:lrogers@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:07 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Hi - larious!!! As a consultant, I have seen both of these
environments, and I just find it absolutely hi - larious!
Reminds me of many years ago when my dad was a regional
manager for a Canadian sub of an American parent company
that was very large (Fortune 50). The environment Todd A.
talks about was the way that they did budgeting for pretty
much everything. Amazingly actual operating costs were
ALWAYS about 50-60% of estimated budgets for the year.....go
figure, huh? :))
Kinda thought that was the dinosaur era until I started to
see this phenomena begin to re-appear a few years ago.
Pity.....
Lorne Rogers
Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.
Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting
<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>
Add this card to your
<http://ariaconsulting.net/vcf/aria.vcf> OutlookT Contacts
Providing Enterprise Software Solutions to small, medium
and larger businesses/groups through World-Class Partners.
Servicing all of Western Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Admitting it...sort of.
Last outfit I was with - BHP Steel Building Products (now
something else) - yup, definitely a way of life. Division
of huge public traded multinational corp with tons of
politics and "games". CYA was a code of existence there.
Made an excellent case once for a backup generator for
computer room and got shot down (too expensive). 6 months
later huge power outage in Tacoma took out data center which
served 6 other Western US sites for a whole day. A written
reprimand was given to me for not being prepared so out came
the memo from President declining generator proposal and
reprimand was withdrawn.
Current company....not at all - privately held, technically
astute President/part-Owner, high trust level in my
judgment. I'm almost never told "no" on a request....on the
other hand I never request more than the company needs and I
ALWAYS squeeze pennies till they scream. Having a
reputation for been extremely frugal and still getting
expected results buys a lot of freedom.
So a lot depends on environment and the people you work for.
-Todd C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:43 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
The older I get the more I realize that --ALL-- IT requests
directed at
management have to be properly "Framed" if you want to get
the results
you're after.
If you want -x- you need to ask for -2x- and then be really
happen when you
get -x-. Management will feel like they've kept you under
control while you
get what you wanted all along. If you ask for -x- you'll
get -1/2(x)- and
be expected to make it perform everything you told them -x-
would do. If
you feel compelled to give management choices then give them
-2x- or -3x- as
a choice. At the worst you'll get -x- or -2x-.
It seems to be more and more important to management types
that they have a
-handle- on IT. Because they just know that we all got
carried away in the
late 90's and wasted all of that money. So these days they
just have to
make sure that we never get what we ask for. Always just a
little less.
So it's just a game. Management for the most part doesn't
really know how
this stuff works or what it's really going to take to get
the job done so
they have to rely on the 'always give them less then they
ask for' routine
to feel like their doing their jobs.
So we, in the IT industry, just need to make sure that we
always ask for
just a little bit more then we need to get what we really
want.
Granted this makes me feel a bit like a used car salesman.
Yes sir, we're
asking $ 32,000 for that car and it's worth every penny of
it ... but ... we
might take a little less if you'll buy it RIGHT NOW!
So, internet usage tweaks + CPU tweaks + budgeting games ...
yup, that would
be the first 5 minutes of my day. The real fun comes later
in the day ...
And, just out of curiosity, how many of you folks will
publicly admit to
these kind of games ... ? Come on now - be honest !
Todd Anderson
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Barry [mailto:mbarry@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:12 AM
To: tanderson@...
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Todd,
Do you do this before or after you have management bust the
users for
streaming internet radio? ;)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:54 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Mitchell,
You can probably get that 2nd processor for next to nothing
on eBay or the
web.
On the other hand I agree with the notion that RAM and fast
disk are your
first hurtle.
Easy way to figure this out is to start performance monitor
and watch your
CPU on and off during the day. If it's consistently pegged
then a 2nd
processor would really help. If it's running 5-10% most of
the time then
the CPU just isn't the issue.
One note though - make sure you have your screen saver
turned OFF during the
test. If you are using an 'Active' screen saver on your
server ( such as
pipes or some other animated screen saver ) the screen saver
can peg your
CPU to 100% all by itself.
On the other hand if you are trying to convince management
that it's time
for a new server the screen saver trick can come in handy.
Set performance
monitor to refresh slowly, flick on the screen saver, come
back in 1 hr and
click out of the screen saver and then quickly screen print
the performance
monitor screen. The graph will make it look like your
server has been just
CRANKING during the period at which point you can go to
management and say
"Wow, look at this, we REALLY REALLY need a new server. How
about a
quad-processor box with 2 gig of ram and 15,000 rpm drives?"
Is that tooooo sneaky?
Todd Anderson
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchell Kirby [mailto:m.kirby@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:32 AM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
It appears that the production server we ordered three years
ago was
mistakenly spec'd as a single 866 Pentium instead of a dual
processor
system. System performance is ok, but I am beginning to see
some slowdowns
as our database grows. We have 20 regular users and 10 data
collection
users. The server has 1 gig of RAM.
Would a second processor make that much difference?
Assuming they are still
available of course.
Mitchell Kirby
Riten Industries, Inc.
740-333-8719 Direct
800-338-0027 Sales
800-338-0717 FAX
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/>
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
need to solve in regards to the purchase of a second 866 processor. Both
CPU's need to be from the same build lot, otherwise the voltage can be off
between the two and that will cause problems with multi-threading tasks. Go
buy two PIII 933's that are from the same lot, they should be cheap enough
now. Once they're in, you can overclock them to just north of 1gHz without
extra cooling or any worries about thermal damage.
Good Luck,
Jeff Behringer
President
Behr Technologies
www.behrtech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.
[mailto:lrogers@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:07 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Hi - larious!!! As a consultant, I have seen both of these
environments, and I just find it absolutely hi - larious!
Reminds me of many years ago when my dad was a regional
manager for a Canadian sub of an American parent company
that was very large (Fortune 50). The environment Todd A.
talks about was the way that they did budgeting for pretty
much everything. Amazingly actual operating costs were
ALWAYS about 50-60% of estimated budgets for the year.....go
figure, huh? :))
Kinda thought that was the dinosaur era until I started to
see this phenomena begin to re-appear a few years ago.
Pity.....
Lorne Rogers
Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.
Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting
<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>
Add this card to your
<http://ariaconsulting.net/vcf/aria.vcf> OutlookT Contacts
Providing Enterprise Software Solutions to small, medium
and larger businesses/groups through World-Class Partners.
Servicing all of Western Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Admitting it...sort of.
Last outfit I was with - BHP Steel Building Products (now
something else) - yup, definitely a way of life. Division
of huge public traded multinational corp with tons of
politics and "games". CYA was a code of existence there.
Made an excellent case once for a backup generator for
computer room and got shot down (too expensive). 6 months
later huge power outage in Tacoma took out data center which
served 6 other Western US sites for a whole day. A written
reprimand was given to me for not being prepared so out came
the memo from President declining generator proposal and
reprimand was withdrawn.
Current company....not at all - privately held, technically
astute President/part-Owner, high trust level in my
judgment. I'm almost never told "no" on a request....on the
other hand I never request more than the company needs and I
ALWAYS squeeze pennies till they scream. Having a
reputation for been extremely frugal and still getting
expected results buys a lot of freedom.
So a lot depends on environment and the people you work for.
-Todd C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:43 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
The older I get the more I realize that --ALL-- IT requests
directed at
management have to be properly "Framed" if you want to get
the results
you're after.
If you want -x- you need to ask for -2x- and then be really
happen when you
get -x-. Management will feel like they've kept you under
control while you
get what you wanted all along. If you ask for -x- you'll
get -1/2(x)- and
be expected to make it perform everything you told them -x-
would do. If
you feel compelled to give management choices then give them
-2x- or -3x- as
a choice. At the worst you'll get -x- or -2x-.
It seems to be more and more important to management types
that they have a
-handle- on IT. Because they just know that we all got
carried away in the
late 90's and wasted all of that money. So these days they
just have to
make sure that we never get what we ask for. Always just a
little less.
So it's just a game. Management for the most part doesn't
really know how
this stuff works or what it's really going to take to get
the job done so
they have to rely on the 'always give them less then they
ask for' routine
to feel like their doing their jobs.
So we, in the IT industry, just need to make sure that we
always ask for
just a little bit more then we need to get what we really
want.
Granted this makes me feel a bit like a used car salesman.
Yes sir, we're
asking $ 32,000 for that car and it's worth every penny of
it ... but ... we
might take a little less if you'll buy it RIGHT NOW!
So, internet usage tweaks + CPU tweaks + budgeting games ...
yup, that would
be the first 5 minutes of my day. The real fun comes later
in the day ...
And, just out of curiosity, how many of you folks will
publicly admit to
these kind of games ... ? Come on now - be honest !
Todd Anderson
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Barry [mailto:mbarry@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:12 AM
To: tanderson@...
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Todd,
Do you do this before or after you have management bust the
users for
streaming internet radio? ;)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:54 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
Mitchell,
You can probably get that 2nd processor for next to nothing
on eBay or the
web.
On the other hand I agree with the notion that RAM and fast
disk are your
first hurtle.
Easy way to figure this out is to start performance monitor
and watch your
CPU on and off during the day. If it's consistently pegged
then a 2nd
processor would really help. If it's running 5-10% most of
the time then
the CPU just isn't the issue.
One note though - make sure you have your screen saver
turned OFF during the
test. If you are using an 'Active' screen saver on your
server ( such as
pipes or some other animated screen saver ) the screen saver
can peg your
CPU to 100% all by itself.
On the other hand if you are trying to convince management
that it's time
for a new server the screen saver trick can come in handy.
Set performance
monitor to refresh slowly, flick on the screen saver, come
back in 1 hr and
click out of the screen saver and then quickly screen print
the performance
monitor screen. The graph will make it look like your
server has been just
CRANKING during the period at which point you can go to
management and say
"Wow, look at this, we REALLY REALLY need a new server. How
about a
quad-processor box with 2 gig of ram and 15,000 rpm drives?"
Is that tooooo sneaky?
Todd Anderson
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchell Kirby [mailto:m.kirby@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:32 AM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Dual vs Single Processor
It appears that the production server we ordered three years
ago was
mistakenly spec'd as a single 866 Pentium instead of a dual
processor
system. System performance is ok, but I am beginning to see
some slowdowns
as our database grows. We have 20 regular users and 10 data
collection
users. The server has 1 gig of RAM.
Would a second processor make that much difference?
Assuming they are still
available of course.
Mitchell Kirby
Riten Industries, Inc.
740-333-8719 Direct
800-338-0027 Sales
800-338-0717 FAX
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/>
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links