{Disarmed} RE: Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2

Yahoo Archive
1
Thanks Everyone! All your emails helped! We are back to using the Vantage
Back up utility.







Best Regards,



Dina M. Hieber

Vamco International, Inc.

555 Epsilon Drive

Pittsburgh, Pa 15238



(412) 963-7100 x 203

(412) 963-9511



www.vamcointernational.com



*****

This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in the
email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ned
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:03 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2





You can restore Vantage, you just may not be able to restore the DB
correctly
without corrupted data.

I have seen it dozens of times where some company tried to backup the
mfgsys.db,
d1, b1, etc files and use them as their backup, and it failed miserably,
same
goes for MS SQL DBs. Some companies would do the same when asked to upload
them
via FTP for Epicor to take a look at them and test on their own server.

I will say that once in awhile those files can successfully be used, but
those
are rare(sub 10%).

You have to use some kind of routine to make a flat file backup or else you
are
running the same kind of Russian Roulette game as if you weren't doing a
backup
at all.

Basically, I would tell them that unless they specialize in Vantage, this is
a
specialized product and they need to trust you on how it's backed up and the
fact that you are paying them to manage the network, they work for you.

Also, if just talking to them fails and they still insist on doing it their
way,
I am sure you can easily get a letter on Epicor Letter head from Ben or
whoever
is in charge of support nowadays telling them what the best practice, and
Epicor
recommended method of backup is. And it will be the backup routine to a flat
file and then to tape or disk or whatever medium you choose.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of Dina
Hieber
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2

I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we hired a
third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every day
at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
was able to restore from. (and did).

Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup Exec
for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was not
true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?

Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?

Best Regards,

Dina M. Hieber

Vamco International, Inc.

555 Epsilon Drive

Pittsburgh, Pa 15238

(412) 963-7100 x 203

(412) 963-9511

www.vamcointernational.com

*****

This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in the
email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo>
yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we hired a
third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every day
at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
was able to restore from. (and did).



Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup Exec
for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was not
true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?



Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?







Best Regards,



Dina M. Hieber

Vamco International, Inc.

555 Epsilon Drive

Pittsburgh, Pa 15238



(412) 963-7100 x 203

(412) 963-9511



www.vamcointernational.com



*****

This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in the
email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
On 2/10/2010 1:00 PM, Dina Hieber wrote:
> Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup Exec
> for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
> there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was not
> true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?
> Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?

You didn't state your platform, but I'm assuming Progress on Windows and locally attached disks. Unless Windows and Symantec have some trick I'm unaware of, I have to say Definitely NOT in any way a reliable or usable backup.

Some SANs as well as most Unix file systems can do "snapshots" but I'm not sure even those would be a reliable DB backup.

-Wayne
4
Diana,

The live Vantage DB should NEVER be backed up by a third party utility because the _Proserve process is holding open the .D1, .B1, .LK, etc.... files. When the third party backup utility attempts to lock the file to back it up, it can cause Vantage to crash and corrupt data. The proper method for backing up the Vantage DB is to utilize the Progress probackup utility to create an online backup file (Your old .BAK file) and to have the Symantec Backup program back up that file.

Regards,

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

This email, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify me by telephone and permanently delete the original and any copy of any email and any printout thereof.




On Feb 10, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Dina Hieber wrote:

> I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we hired a
> third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
> new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every day
> at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
> was able to restore from. (and did).
>
> Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup Exec
> for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
> there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was not
> true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?
>
> Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dina M. Hieber
>
> Vamco International, Inc.
>
> 555 Epsilon Drive
>
> Pittsburgh, Pa 15238
>
> (412) 963-7100 x 203
>
> (412) 963-9511
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> *****
>
> This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
> unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in the
> email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
> are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Dina,



I went through the same thing you are going through. I told my guys I
really did not care what their utility did as long as my backup.1 file
was backed up first. Then they could back up the image of the server.



I also tested out their theory and even though it looked like everything
was ok (at least the software was restored from their image), I still
restored my file and was happy it worked.



Not sure if the image "corrupted" the software "install", at least that
restore went fast. But I was happy that I could still restore my data
the old fashioned way.



Last thing you want to find out is that they were wrong and you are
stuck without your backup file!



Hope this made sense and helps you figure out a way to compromise what
needs to be done for your backups.





M. Manasa Reddy

manasa@... <mailto:manasa@...>

800.852.2325

630.806.2000 ofc

630.806.2001 fax

www.weldcoa.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Dina Hieber
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2





I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we
hired a
third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every
day
at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
was able to restore from. (and did).

Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup
Exec
for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was
not
true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?

Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?


Best Regards,

Dina M. Hieber

Vamco International, Inc.

555 Epsilon Drive

Pittsburgh, Pa 15238

(412) 963-7100 x 203

(412) 963-9511

www.vamcointernational.com

*****

This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential
and
are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in
the
email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email
and
destroy all copies of the original message.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
Just playing devils advocate but if you are on a win 2k3 server something like NTBACKUP could in theory use shadow copy to capture the file right? NTBACKUP using shadow copy is capable of grabbing in use system files like the pagefile on servers.

Again i recommend using the progress backup program if you are on progress and a sql agent maintenance job if you are on M$ SQL. But has anybody tried something that uses shadow copy?

~Charlie

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Manasa Reddy" <manasa@...> wrote:
>
> Dina,
>
>
>
> I went through the same thing you are going through. I told my guys I
> really did not care what their utility did as long as my backup.1 file
> was backed up first. Then they could back up the image of the server.
>
>
>
> I also tested out their theory and even though it looked like everything
> was ok (at least the software was restored from their image), I still
> restored my file and was happy it worked.
>
>
>
> Not sure if the image "corrupted" the software "install", at least that
> restore went fast. But I was happy that I could still restore my data
> the old fashioned way.
>
>
>
> Last thing you want to find out is that they were wrong and you are
> stuck without your backup file!
>
>
>
> Hope this made sense and helps you figure out a way to compromise what
> needs to be done for your backups.
>
>
>
>
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
>
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa@...>
>
> 800.852.2325
>
> 630.806.2000 ofc
>
> 630.806.2001 fax
>
> www.weldcoa.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Dina Hieber
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:01 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2
>
>
>
>
>
> I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we
> hired a
> third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
> new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every
> day
> at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
> was able to restore from. (and did).
>
> Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup
> Exec
> for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
> there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was
> not
> true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?
>
> Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dina M. Hieber
>
> Vamco International, Inc.
>
> 555 Epsilon Drive
>
> Pittsburgh, Pa 15238
>
> (412) 963-7100 x 203
>
> (412) 963-9511
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> *****
>
> This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and
> are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
> unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in
> the
> email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
> are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email
> and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
7
I know I have never tried it before...







M. Manasa Reddy

manasa@... <mailto:manasa@...>

800.852.2325

630.806.2000 ofc

630.806.2001 fax

www.weldcoa.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of foamdesigncsw
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:05 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2





Just playing devils advocate but if you are on a win 2k3 server
something like NTBACKUP could in theory use shadow copy to capture the
file right? NTBACKUP using shadow copy is capable of grabbing in use
system files like the pagefile on servers.

Again i recommend using the progress backup program if you are on
progress and a sql agent maintenance job if you are on M$ SQL. But has
anybody tried something that uses shadow copy?

~Charlie

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Manasa Reddy" <manasa@...> wrote:
>
> Dina,
>
>
>
> I went through the same thing you are going through. I told my guys I
> really did not care what their utility did as long as my backup.1 file
> was backed up first. Then they could back up the image of the server.
>
>
>
> I also tested out their theory and even though it looked like
everything
> was ok (at least the software was restored from their image), I still
> restored my file and was happy it worked.
>
>
>
> Not sure if the image "corrupted" the software "install", at least
that
> restore went fast. But I was happy that I could still restore my data
> the old fashioned way.
>
>
>
> Last thing you want to find out is that they were wrong and you are
> stuck without your backup file!
>
>
>
> Hope this made sense and helps you figure out a way to compromise what
> needs to be done for your backups.
>
>
>
>
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
>
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa@...>
>
> 800.852.2325
>
> 630.806.2000 ofc
>
> 630.806.2001 fax
>
> www.weldcoa.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Dina Hieber
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:01 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2
>
>
>
>
>
> I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we
> hired a
> third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to
a
> new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every
> day
> at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that
I
> was able to restore from. (and did).
>
> Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup
> Exec
> for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
> there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was
> not
> true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?
>
> Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up
software?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dina M. Hieber
>
> Vamco International, Inc.
>
> 555 Epsilon Drive
>
> Pittsburgh, Pa 15238
>
> (412) 963-7100 x 203
>
> (412) 963-9511
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> *****
>
> This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and
> are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
> unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in
> the
> email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If
you
> are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email
> and
> destroy all copies of the original message.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
We are on version 8.03 But have been with vantage since version 3. I remember that you NEVER use a third party app to backup and or restore. To be on the safe side confirm with epicor, but I have a strange feeling they will say the same thing.

Good Luck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
You can restore Vantage, you just may not be able to restore the DB correctly
without corrupted data.

I have seen it dozens of times where some company tried to backup the mfgsys.db,
d1, b1, etc files and use them as their backup, and it failed miserably, same
goes for MS SQL DBs. Some companies would do the same when asked to upload them
via FTP for Epicor to take a look at them and test on their own server.

I will say that once in awhile those files can successfully be used, but those
are rare(sub 10%).

You have to use some kind of routine to make a flat file backup or else you are
running the same kind of Russian Roulette game as if you weren't doing a backup
at all.

Basically, I would tell them that unless they specialize in Vantage, this is a
specialized product and they need to trust you on how it's backed up and the
fact that you are paying them to manage the network, they work for you.

Also, if just talking to them fails and they still insist on doing it their way,
I am sure you can easily get a letter on Epicor Letter head from Ben or whoever
is in charge of support nowadays telling them what the best practice, and Epicor
recommended method of backup is. And it will be the backup routine to a flat
file and then to tape or disk or whatever medium you choose.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dina
Hieber
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Back Up Verison 5.2

I use to handle our networks but my job description switched, and we hired a
third party to maintain our networks. (yeah!!!) They moved Vantage to a
new server recently. Previously, I used Vantage Back up tool and every day
at lunch time and 5:00 made a vantage back up. I had a *.bak file that I
was able to restore from. (and did).



Now that they are in charge of the network, they use Symantec Backup Exec
for Win Small. They feel with this they are able to restore Vantage if
there was a problem. I was always under the impression, that this was not
true, you had to use Vantage Back Up utility. Am I wrong?



Can anyone tell me if you will be able to restore from back up software?







Best Regards,



Dina M. Hieber

Vamco International, Inc.

555 Epsilon Drive

Pittsburgh, Pa 15238



(412) 963-7100 x 203

(412) 963-9511



www.vamcointernational.com



*****

This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
are intended for the sole use of the intended receipient(s). Any
unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. Any opinions express in the
email are those of the individual and not necessaily the company. If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the send by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links