Any method for forced mass daily payroll clockout of MES users?

Rob;

When we went live on Vantage 2.3 years ago and implemented a
timesheet process that printed when the employee clicked on
clockout. (We actually demonstrated this customization at
Perspectives 2006.) The employee needed to initial their timesheet
and turn in to their supervisor before they were able to leave.
Disiplinary action took place as Thom described below.

However, we did eventually abandoned this process as it created havoc
at the MES workstations. Not only did we have lines at the
workstations, but the process took about 35-45 seconds to print after
the employee clicked clockout. Some employees were here 15 to 20
minutes after they ended their shift...and created a very negative
view on Vantage as a whole. You know how hard it is to put a
positive spin on a new system.

We now use Shop Tracker. Each supervisor reviews after their shift
end for employees 'who are here' that shouldn't be.

It is a HUGE process for us each day to review labor, but in the end,
we realy utilize clean data. The analysis of the last 24 hours gives
us the ability to make good manufacturing decisions for the next 24
hours.

Employee 'absent-mindedness' should not be a huge endevor to
customize the heck out of the software.

Thanks
Patty Buechler
UV Color

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Thomas,
>
> You are a man after my own heart as I agree, it is a training and
discipline issue.
>
> That said, I DO understand manufacturing management/supervisor's
position on this. As, we we've been down the training/disciplinary
path several times as we've changed our payroll system's had scan
in/out process several times.
>
> People (including the management) don't 'get' the value in another
one of these initiatives simply to conform to a poorly though out
vantage paradigm. (A paradigm I, after using MANY systems over the
years, agree is poorly thought out.)
>
> I'm hoping there IS some systemic way to minimize the need as it
truly is non-value added extra activity (and a long term management
distraction & effort to train & discipline) to ask people to absorb.
>
> I'm already noodling around with the idea of using a scheduled
process to run after last shift ends to poll each employee's clock in
status and, if still clocked in, set a UD boolean field to true in
some appropriate table.
>
> Then I can use that db field change to trigger a BPM that perhaps
can perform the clock outs for those who are still clocked in.
>
> Surely, our situation is not unique.
>
> Thanks for the sound advice Thomas. It echoes what I've said to
manufacturing. Until a systemic way IS found, if they want Vantage to
provide them with good info to manage the business, they must make
this sacrifice to get it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@...> wrote:
> From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@...>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] any method for forced mass daily payroll
clockout of MES users?
> To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:24 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't have the answer you are looking for. However,
it seems to me the burden this is placing on supervisors gives them
an excellent incentive to focus on getting employees to clock out
when they are supposed to. The supervisors may need to start
initiating disciplinary action against employees who fail to clock
out. Eventually, this will get employees into the habit of clocking
out.
>
>
>
> Employee fails to clock out on day one - oral warning.
>
> Employee fails to clock out on day two - written reprimand.
>
> Employee fails to clock out on day three - probation.
>
> Employee fails to clock out on day four - termination.
>
>
>
> Can you guess how many employees will be terminated and how many
will develop the habit of clocking out? You may lose a few absent
minded employees in the short run, but in the long run, your
employees will be in the habit of clocking out.
>
>
>
> One variation on the above - put entire teams through the above
sequence of disciplinary action outlined above if any one team member
fails to clock out. Now, all it takes is one team member remembering
to clock out to remind all his teammates.
>
>
>
> Of course, if your employees are difficult to replace or are union,
you may not have the luxury of initiating this sort of disciplinary
process.
>
>
>
> Thom Rose
>
> Controller
>
> Electric Mirror, LLC
>
> T ext. 1024
>
> A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
>
> www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On
Behalf Of Robert Brown
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:17 PM
>
> To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
>
> Subject: {Disarmed} [Vantage] any method for forced mass daily
payroll clockout of MES users?
>
>
>
> Our MES users are stuggling to remember to Clock out (payroll
date/shift) at the end of each day and are only logging out from the
app so others can use the shared win-terminals.
>
>
>
> As a result, we have hundreds of labor activity records with
payroll dates of (for example) 6/10 - all piled up with activity for
the 6/10-6/17.
>
>
>
> It makes it nearly impossible for supervisors to then use full
license labor entry to go in and edit/correct labor entry mistakes.
>
>
>
> We do not use Payroll. MES is purely intended for labor activity
reporting for us (and a handfull of users also do Material issues &
job receipts using it).
>
>
>
> Is there any process (native to vantage or perhaps a custom
process) that any of you may be using to perform a mass payroll
date/shift clock out of MES users at the end of each day?
>
>
>
> Any tips would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rob Brown
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Our MES users are stuggling to remember to Clock out (payroll date/shift) at the end of each day and are only logging out from the app so others can use the shared win-terminals.
Â
As a result, we have hundreds of labor activity records with payroll dates of (for example) 6/10 - all piled up with activity for the 6/10-6/17.
Â
It makes it nearly impossible for supervisors to then use full license labor entry to go in and edit/correct labor entry mistakes.
Â
We do not use Payroll. MES is purely intended for labor activity reporting for us (and a handfull of users also do Material issues & job receipts using it).
Â
Is there any process (native to vantage or perhaps a custom process) that any of you may be using to perform a mass payroll date/shift clock out of MES users at the end of each day?

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rob Brown
Â
Â
I don't have the answer you are looking for. However, it seems to me the burden this is placing on supervisors gives them an excellent incentive to focus on getting employees to clock out when they are supposed to. The supervisors may need to start initiating disciplinary action against employees who fail to clock out. Eventually, this will get employees into the habit of clocking out.

Employee fails to clock out on day one - oral warning.
Employee fails to clock out on day two - written reprimand.
Employee fails to clock out on day three - probation.
Employee fails to clock out on day four - termination.

Can you guess how many employees will be terminated and how many will develop the habit of clocking out? You may lose a few absent minded employees in the short run, but in the long run, your employees will be in the habit of clocking out.

One variation on the above - put entire teams through the above sequence of disciplinary action outlined above if any one team member fails to clock out. Now, all it takes is one team member remembering to clock out to remind all his teammates.

Of course, if your employees are difficult to replace or are union, you may not have the luxury of initiating this sort of disciplinary process.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror, LLC
T 425 776-4946 ext. 1024
A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com/>

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Brown
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:17 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} [Vantage] any method for forced mass daily payroll clockout of MES users?


Our MES users are stuggling to remember to Clock out (payroll date/shift) at the end of each day and are only logging out from the app so others can use the shared win-terminals.

As a result, we have hundreds of labor activity records with payroll dates of (for example) 6/10 - all piled up with activity for the 6/10-6/17.

It makes it nearly impossible for supervisors to then use full license labor entry to go in and edit/correct labor entry mistakes.

We do not use Payroll. MES is purely intended for labor activity reporting for us (and a handfull of users also do Material issues & job receipts using it).

Is there any process (native to vantage or perhaps a custom process) that any of you may be using to perform a mass payroll date/shift clock out of MES users at the end of each day?

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rob Brown





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thomas,

You are a man after my own heart as I agree, it is a training and discipline issue.

That said, I DO understand manufacturing management/supervisor's position on this. As, we we've been down the training/disciplinary path several times as we've changed our payroll system's had scan in/out process several times.

People (including the management) don't 'get' the value in another one of these initiatives simply to conform to a poorly though out vantage paradigm. (A paradigm I, after using MANY systems over the years, agree is poorly thought out.)

I'm hoping there IS some systemic way to minimize the need as it truly is non-value added extra activity (and a long term management distraction & effort to train & discipline) to ask people to absorb.

I'm already noodling around with the idea of using a scheduled process to run after last shift ends to poll each employee's clock in status and, if still clocked in, set a UD boolean field to true in some appropriate table.

Then I can use that db field change to trigger a BPM that perhaps can perform the clock outs for those who are still clocked in.

Surely, our situation is not unique.

Thanks for the sound advice Thomas. It echoes what I've said to manufacturing. Until a systemic way IS found, if they want Vantage to provide them with good info to manage the business, they must make this sacrifice to get it.

Rob Brown

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Thomas Rose <t.rose@...> wrote:
From: Thomas Rose <t.rose@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] any method for forced mass daily payroll clockout of MES users?
To: "vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:24 PM











I don't have the answer you are looking for. However, it seems to me the burden this is placing on supervisors gives them an excellent incentive to focus on getting employees to clock out when they are supposed to. The supervisors may need to start initiating disciplinary action against employees who fail to clock out. Eventually, this will get employees into the habit of clocking out.



Employee fails to clock out on day one - oral warning.

Employee fails to clock out on day two - written reprimand.

Employee fails to clock out on day three - probation.

Employee fails to clock out on day four - termination.



Can you guess how many employees will be terminated and how many will develop the habit of clocking out? You may lose a few absent minded employees in the short run, but in the long run, your employees will be in the habit of clocking out.



One variation on the above - put entire teams through the above sequence of disciplinary action outlined above if any one team member fails to clock out. Now, all it takes is one team member remembering to clock out to remind all his teammates.



Of course, if your employees are difficult to replace or are union, you may not have the luxury of initiating this sort of disciplinary process.



Thom Rose

Controller

Electric Mirror, LLC

T ext. 1024

A 11831 Beverly Park Road, Building D, Everett, WA 98204 USA

www.electricmirror. com<http://www.electric mirror.com/>



From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Robert Brown

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:17 PM

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com

Subject: {Disarmed} [Vantage] any method for forced mass daily payroll clockout of MES users?



Our MES users are stuggling to remember to Clock out (payroll date/shift) at the end of each day and are only logging out from the app so others can use the shared win-terminals.



As a result, we have hundreds of labor activity records with payroll dates of (for example) 6/10 - all piled up with activity for the 6/10-6/17.



It makes it nearly impossible for supervisors to then use full license labor entry to go in and edit/correct labor entry mistakes.



We do not use Payroll. MES is purely intended for labor activity reporting for us (and a handfull of users also do Material issues & job receipts using it).



Is there any process (native to vantage or perhaps a custom process) that any of you may be using to perform a mass payroll date/shift clock out of MES users at the end of each day?



Any tips would be appreciated.



Thanks



Rob Brown



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]